What are y’all grouping with fowlers ?

[TheTyler7011]

So I got a 20 gauge. I am using 80 grains FF, covering with a wad, and a naked .615 ball on top.

At 50 yards I am doing about 5”groups with 4 shots. I’m sure this can be improved when I get more rounds through it and become more comfortable with it

 

[tenngun]

Mine, similar charges, I have rear sights
28 bore smooth rifle and 30 bore TFC

Top target is sight in. Three shots, one off paper on bottom, three shots after filing front sight
Next is four out of five, had one flyer, last is patched vs bare at fifty yards

 

[Loja man]

Mine is still a pile of parts in a box!! When it looks like a Fowler I will let you know!;-)

 

[nhmoose]

off hand great, bench? same but could improve with some experimenting.

 

[Rancocas]

So I got a 20 gauge. I am using 80 grains FF, covering with a wad, and a naked .615 ball on top.

At 50 yards I am doing about 5”groups with 4 shots. I’m sure this can be improved when I get more rounds through it and become more comfortable with it

I think that is an excellent grouping.
My .62 flintlock fusil with a 42" barrel, and no rear sight can make about a 5" or 6" group at that range off the bench. And, I am quite happy with that. I have taken deer with it.

 

[Brokennock]

I get 3 to 4 inch groups at 50 yards with either a .610 ball in-between a lubed felt or tow wad and a thin card to hold it in place, or a .595 ball with a .010 patch.

Does your .615 ball run freely down the barrel or do you need to push it? If you dropped one down with the barrel empty, would it slide or roll out?

 

[tenngun]

On a bare ball I think it best to always put a wad infront. It might fall off its own weight in a clean bore, push it down anyway to make sure. In a dirty bore after just one shot no it won’t

 

[hanshi]

Here are a couple of the targets I've fired. The target on the left was fired with my bare ball load and on the right is the prb target. Bare ball group 2-3/4" and the prb group 1-3/4". These are three shot groups at 50 yards. IMHO three shot groups at 50 (+or -) tells one that the load is great for deer. But a good bare ball still comes pretty close to equaling the prb load. As long as you can put 3 balls at 50 yards in a 5" to 6" circle you can also kill a deer cleanly.

My .20 ga has a rear sight and I shoot it just like I shoot a rifle. I've found - in my gun at least - that a 3F powder charge from 60 grains up to 75 grns shoots about the same. I load a .600" ball and a .012" to .015" cotton patch lubed with ToTW mink oil. The prb load is slightly snug but not tight like a rifle load.

This deer was killed at 20 yards with a prb and 75 grains of 3F. It was also a running shot.

 

[TheTyler7011]

I get 3 to 4 inch groups at 50 yards with either a .610 ball in-between a lubed felt or tow wad and a thin card to hold it in place, or a .595 ball with a .010 patch.

Does your .615 ball run freely down the barrel or do you need to push it? If you dropped one down with the barrel empty, would it slide or roll out?

It goes pretty easy. Definitely doesn’t roll though

 

[Brokennock]

It goes pretty easy. Definitely doesn’t roll though

I'd be concerned if it were at all snug. Leading is avoided in a rifle because of the patch. A smoothbore doesn't really need to use a patch, but a ball big enough to slide down the barrel walls could cause leading.

 

[Bushfire]

Here are a couple of the targets I've fired. The target on the left was fired with my bare ball load and on the right is the prb target. Bare ball group 2-3/4" and the prb group 1-3/4". These are three shot groups at 50 yards. IMHO three shot groups at 50 (+or -) tells one that the load is great for deer. But a good bare ball still comes pretty close to equaling the prb load. As long as you can put 3 balls at 50 yards in a 5" to 6" circle you can also kill a deer cleanly.

My .20 ga has a rear sight and I shoot it just like I shoot a rifle. I've found - in my gun at least - that a 3F powder charge from 60 grains up to 75 grns shoots about the same. I load a .600" ball and a .012" to .015" cotton patch lubed with ToTW mink oil. The prb load is slightly snug but not tight like a rifle load.

This deer was killed at 20 yards with a prb and 75 grains of 3F. It was also a running shot.

You should consider yourself lucky that we're a big ocean apart. If I lived near you I'd be hassling you constantly about smoothbore shooting. They are some great groups (and beautiful gun).

 

[Bushfire]

I love hunting with my flint rifle but I'll admit the first deer I take with my fusil will be one of my most treasured trophies. Already got a spot for the skin in my little man cave!

I haven't been able to better 5" at 50 yards so I'm not yet willing to try it on deer. I have shot groups under 3" at 30 yards but we don't have the type of hunting where close shots like that are common.

I have tried bare ball and patched, the groups are slightly tighter with the PRB but then they shoot lower. For ease and speed of loading I don't mind the bare ball. I have been using 90gn Swiss 2F but I think I'll go higher and see if Mike Belivue's method works for my gun.

What I really need is a rear sight on mine, and I gladly would do it if there was a gunsmith that could help me. I wouldn't be game to try it myself.

 

[Brokennock]

I haven't been able to better 5" at 50 yards

Off a bench, with proper technique, or standing and/or field positions?

 

[Bushfire]

Off a bench, with proper technique, or standing and/or field positions?

Good point, all offhand standing. Mike Beliveau made an argument that it's how you would naturally shoot on game or fighting indians so why would you try on targets any different.

I would really love folding rear sight on it. I don't know any decent gunsmiths around here though.

Edit: I'd add to this that I've tried shooting from a bench but without a rear sight I can't get the same hold and believe it or not but my groups really open up.

 

[Brokennock]

How did Mike Beliveau become the be all end all of traditional muzzleloading?
Best I can tell all his "data" comes from range testing, a static and controlled environment. Nothing real world.
Now, I admit, I don't watch a lot of his videos, I don't like YouTube and I don't see him hauling himself and his gear up the mountain or through rough woods to actually hunt,,,, and certainly not fight.

Yes, one won't be shooting off the bench in the field. But load development and sight regulation done from the bench,,,, correctly,,,, tells one what the gun/load/sights are capable of. If the group is good and shooting to point of aim off the bench,,, you know it works. If it isn't when one leaves the bench we know it is a shooter issue. If the group doesn't grow much but consistently shoots to the same spot,,,, different from point of aim/different from the bench,,, then maybe move the sights to correct for it, but otherwise correct the shooter issue. In this case that correction may be a rear sight or something placed to the rear of the gun as a reference.
There are many homemade rear sight suggestions on this forum. The one on my Fusil des Chase is just a small brass rear sight off an old junk gun that's glued in place. It would be really easy to shape one like it from a small piece of brass.

 

[Bushfire]

How did Mike Beliveau become the be all end all of traditional muzzleloading?
Best I can tell all his "data" comes from range testing, a static and controlled environment. Nothing real world.
Now, I admit, I don't watch a lot of his videos, I don't like YouTube and I don't see him hauling himself and his gear up the mountain or through rough woods to actually hunt,,,, and certainly not fight.

Yes, one won't be shooting off the bench in the field. But load development and sight regulation done from the bench,,,, correctly,,,, tells one what the gun/load/sights are capable of. If the group is good and shooting to point of aim off the bench,,, you know it works. If it isn't when one leaves the bench we know it is a shooter issue. If the group doesn't grow much but consistently shoots to the same spot,,,, different from point of aim/different from the bench,,, then maybe move the sights to correct for it, but otherwise correct the shooter issue. In this case that correction may be a rear sight or something placed to the rear of the gun as a reference.
There are many homemade rear sight suggestions on this forum. The one on my Fusil des Chase is just a small brass rear sight off an old junk gun that's glued in place. It would be really easy to shape one like it from a small piece of brass.

May I see a photo of the one on your gun? I'd love to know how you glued it on snd got it to stay there. I'd have a go at, not a lot to lose.

 

[Brokennock]

May I see a photo of the one on your gun? I'd love to know how you glued it on snd got it to stay there. I'd have a go at, not a lot to lose.

Yes, I can post one later. Leaving for "work" now.
There is a topic on it somewhere that also mentions what glue I used.

Sorry for the Mike rant, touched a nerve, lol.

 

[Art Caputo]

My 20+ year oldTVMA/J.Garner) 62 cal Fowler is quite accurate for deer out to 50-70 yards, I use a PLRB(.60) with a TOTW Mink Oil/ .015” patch/70gr 3F. Perhaps heresy, but the addition of a smallish primitive rear sight dove-tailed on the octagon portion of the barrel shrank my groups 1/3-1/2 the size. My versatile ML used for turkey, deer, and small game/birds. I can get 6-12 accurate shots w/o swabbing.

 

[tenngun]

Good point, all offhand standing. Mike Beliveau made an argument that it's how you would naturally shoot on game or fighting indians so why would you try on targets any different.

I would really love folding rear sight on it. I don't know any decent gunsmiths around here though.

Edit: I'd add to this that I've tried shooting from a bench but without a rear sight I can't get the same hold and believe it or not but my groups really open up.

Been too many years since I had to shoot redcoats or injuns. While hunting a try to use a rest. Even after tree rats I try to be sitting and aim with knee as rest, and that shooting shot.

 

[Brokennock]

May I see a photo of the one on your gun? I'd love to know how you glued it on snd got it to stay there. I'd have a go at, not a lot to lose.

Adhesive used was Loctite 380, formerly known as Loctite "Black Max."
Clean, clean, clean. Just like paint, a lot of getting a good glue joint is in the prep.

I should have someone dovetail it in now that I know I like it and its location. Over time I'm not sure how temperature changes will effect it as the brass and steel expand and contract at different rates.