What caliber rifle to get?

[Johnny Tremain]

@Johnny Tremain I've never been able to get on board with the Davenport formula. Every comprehensive test over my chronograph has shown it to be non-applicable.

I found it on this forum years ago, it works every time for me, and Ive done lots of others barrels.
Maybe its like buying a production gun, and I just lucked out.

 

[longcruise]

I found it on this forum years ago, it works every time for me, and Ive done lots of others barrels.
Maybe its like buying a production gun, and I just lucked out.

It was heavily promoted by Paul Valadigham (I'm sure the spelling is wrong). Nobody has ever presented evidence that the theory is at all factual.

He also claimed to have shot over a sheet and gathered the ash claiming it was unburned powder and that it ignited. This was his attempt to to validate the old wives tale of establishing max powder load by shooting over snow. I would challenge anyone to repeat that experiment.

I have shot my 28" barreled 45 over a chronograph and recorded increases in velocity up to 120 grains of 3f Scheutzen. Would have gone further but I ran out of powder . All that "unburned" powder seems to have had considerable effect. I don't know what the davenport formula prescribes for a 28" 45 barrel but I'm sure it's way less than 120 grains.

 

[smoothshooter]

I have a good amount of 4f Swiss and 3f Tipple 7. I have no muzzle loading rifles. I live in Canada and would like a flintlock. What caliber is my best bet to use with these powders? Can you recommend a builder or manufacturer? No cap locks or in lines. Just the best bet flintlock rifle. I'm new to this. The purpose is to get into the sport.
Thanks,
John

Unless moose or elk are on the agenda, .45 caliber is hard to beat for general use ( targets/small game/ medium big game ).

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

Your right ,he's wrong

cause it matters (SQUAT) but in his defense he probably thinks 4F will
blow up your gun as a main charge thou our Brit friend posts a impressive kill ratio with 4F in copious amounts along with serious portions of lead in his 10 ga.!!! Nay Sayers exist in every forum ,they just lack common sense/Ed

Or it could be that he's still confused about being a 4F and shooting 4F.

 

[Stumpkiller]

What about, 4f in the pan and a duplex (say 5gr 4f) with the triple 7 (say 40 gr) in something like a 20 gauge.

We're all adults and you can do as you please . . . but Goex took the time to warn against doing that on their cans. Start low. You are mixing a Class III explosive with a strong oxidizing propellant and 1 + 1 may equal 3.

 

[Gtrubicon]

Get em all, that’s the only way any of us junkies would be happy.

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

I always found it interesting that hunting animals you could use a smaller caliber than when you were looking down your barrel at another human. I have a Napoleonic war Baker rifle in .62 caliber and a Civil War Remington Zouave rifle in .58 caliber. I carried a 5.56mm M16 during my military service during the 70s. My how times and calibers have changed!!

 

[morehops52]

For general use including hunting I would highly recommend a 50 cal. It just gives you more options , period. You've stated that caps are no option. Then also 777 is no option. Yes, you can do a 10/90 , 20/80 split or what ever but why? If you have the ability to buy real black powder then get the 3f (preferably) or 2f you need to work with a flint lock. Just because you have a good supply of 777 doesn't mean it's the correct answer. I wouldn't use 50W motor oil in an engine designed for 15W.
As for a recommended brand, based on availability, price and quality my choices would be: 1. A good used Thompson Center Hawken or Renegade, again in 50. 2. A good used Lyman/Investarms Great Plains Rifle / Gemmer (or Hunter model for slugs). You will find them advertised here regularly. Only the Investarms are avail new.
One last thought, if you are determined to use up your 777 you might consider getting a caplock in the future. Good luck and have fun!

 

[mtfishn]

I got a good barrel in .45 cal specifically to shoot round balls at paper and gongs. Very accruate and no complaints, mild recoil everything I ever wanted....but for hunting, I have had game (deer and antelope) run a little farther than I like even with good hits. I prefer a .54 for my hunting which includes elk.

 

[SOLANCO]

Powder is an expendable. What you happen to have in powder has virtually no bearing on your choice of flintlock weapon. How, when, where and why you will shoot should determine the gun. The powder will either be useful, or not.
Would you buy a new stove based solely on the current contents of your refrigerator?

 

[Psycho Mike]

I always found it interesting that hunting animals you could use a smaller caliber than when you were looking down your barrel at another human. I have a Napoleonic war Baker rifle in .62 caliber and a Civil War Remington Zouave rifle in .58 caliber. I carried a 5.56mm M16 during my military service during the 70s. My how times and calibers have changed!!

Yes and no....

The big .75cal Bess and .69 cal Charlevilles, later the .58 cal Zouaves and Enfields, were more to do maximum damage while being less "fiddly" to load....lots of big, heavy and slow projectiles that tended to keep auguring through until all the energy was gone, killing many outright, but wounding others. It was a large-calibre "shock and awe" that was also intended to be outright lethal more often than not (one less person to shoot back....).

When we got to the M16 (yours) / C-7 (mine) and the smaller 5.56 mm / .223 cal, battlefield mentality had changed. Now, it was intended to inflict serious harm on the individual (wound them, but not necessarily kill them outright) so you'd tie up him, his partner, maybe another buddy and several medics to look after him as that light round rattled around inside doing all sorts of dirty deeds. Of course, his screaming in pain also demoralized the others in the platoon too. Psychological warfare had moved beyond simple "shock and awe" into inflicting the biggest trauma (including PTSD) on as many as possible to take them out of the fight, one way or the other....even if they could physically still pick up the rifle.

 

[DementedMindOfJac]

Your right ,he's wrong

cause it matters (SQUAT) but in his defense he probably thinks 4F will
blow up your gun as a main charge thou our Brit friend posts a impressive kill ratio with 4F in copious amounts along with serious portions of lead in his 10 ga.!!! Nay Sayers exist in every forum ,they just lack common sense/Ed

And if you'd read prior posts, you wouldn't have to open your mouth to change feet.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I always found it interesting that hunting animals you could use a smaller caliber than when you were looking down your barrel at another human. I have a Napoleonic war Baker rifle in .62 caliber and a Civil War Remington Zouave rifle in .58 caliber. I carried a 5.56mm M16 during my military service during the 70s. My how times and calibers have changed!!

With black powder the velocity is kind of limited so the only way to hit harder is to use a bigger projectile. While the Baker and Zouave were shooting folks, the hunters in Africa were using 4 bore (1.1") doubles to hunt elephants and lions and .70 caliber or .65 cal double rifles for tigers in India.

 

[William Lincoln]

When Pyrodex first came out, duplexing was all the rage since
pyrodex then was not easy to ignite compared to black powder.
Since then many guys have duplexed 777 loads with a small
prime of 4f. I have tried it with a prime of 10% 4f of your
777 charge. Experiment a little. What I know is that if you
duplex the 777 you get immediate ignition instant bang.
I think that the manufacturers have improved these substitutes
to ignite better over the years. We all enjoy the simple life
so use what you got, BUT black powder is extremely
reliable when dry. It is hard to recommend one gun, but for
a long gun a Hawken style in flint or percussion will do.
Everyone thinks about one rifle or pistol. Brace yourself
and your wallet. Very few stick to one of these smokies.
Most folks wind up with several--often dozens. This is an
addicting pastime with many remarkable people involved,
who are amongst nature's finest Men and Women.