What calibers did they use in the mountain man era?

[Albanyco]

I always see new and older production rifles in .50 caliber and .54. Is that because they were actually popular back in the day or is it because of modern standardization and ease of manufacture? Has anyone handled any original examples?

 

[longcruise]

It's more about modern standardization, IMO. It seems the further you look back the less bore sizes were standardized. Fifty two cal was common in the RM fur trade era. And, of course, at that time bore size was not referred to in inches, but rather in balls per pound or what we call gauge in modern shotguns.

 

[Dewey]

Sage says "thirty to thirty-five balls to the pound" (51-54 cal), but he was somewhat after 1840 ... 1846 or so?

I think I rad that earlier rifles (1830-40) were of lower caliber - can't find my reference for this - will keep looking......

 

[Dewey]

Rufus Sage was in the Rocky Mountains from 1841-44.

 

[Rifleman1776]

This link from another thread might help.
But, it might also confuse. :shocked2: http://greenesgunshop.com/examples.aspx

 

[crockett]

Charles Hanson wrote, "The Plains Rifle" and I think around the 1830's the practice of measuring a bore changed. Prior, the bore was in gauge- even for rifles; then, the practice of measuring in caliber started. Most of the mountain man rifles were between 50 to 54 caliber. As said, some .52 and .53 rifles. If I recall, the gunsmith that made the rifle often cut a short section off the end of the barrel and that was used as a bullet mold for that particular rifle.
Although 50 calibers were used, it has been my "sense" that .53 to .54 calibers were the most common; AND many of the rifles were flintlock American Long Rifles that worked fine but were given a basic no-frills finish. Trade rifles made to be used and not hung over the mantle.

 

[Dewey]

On page 2 of "The Plains Rifle", Hanson states that these rifles were "... never less than .42 and rarely more than .58. The average would be .45 to .55."

Hawken's were not common in the 1830-40 time era (see Hanson's "The Hawken Rifle: It's Place in History") - far more Lancasters, English, and Southern rifles. Most were flintlocks - the Hawkens were first choice among those who did have a caplock.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Merriweather Lewis went west with 54 caliber rifles and 69 caliber muskets with the attached regular military. Clark did bring along his made by Small rifle that carried 100 balls to the pound or 36 caliber.

During the mountain man era, hunters and trappers may have started west with smaller calibers from the Eastern Woodlands. Most trade post records indicate a preference for 52 to 54 caliber sized bore for rifles ordered for sale. Smooth bores of 62 caliber (20 gauge) to 80 (10 gauge) were also present.

 

[longcruise]

Then there is that Lewis and Clark question of "were they .49 or .54"!!

 

[nchawkeye]

And Clark's mention of his small rifle...

Was is a small bore or made by Small...

Much we don't know... :grin:

 

[longcruise]

Yeah! He coulda just called it a "smallie" and left the hysterically correct with a unique research problem.

 

[nkbj]

Merriweather Lewis went west with 54 caliber rifles and 69 caliber muskets with the attached regular military. Clark did bring along his made by Small rifle that carried 100 balls to the pound or 36 caliber.

During the mountain man era, hunters and trappers may have started west with smaller calibers from the Eastern Woodlands. Most trade post records indicate a preference for 52 to 54 caliber sized bore for rifles ordered for sale. Smooth bores of 62 caliber (20 gauge) to 80 (10 gauge) were also present.

Once upon a time I poured over the load tables with a calculator and came to the conclusion that the flattest shooting most efficient caliber was just about .52 to .53.
So now it looks like you're telling me that back then they figured it out without Texas Instruments!

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yes, standardization or more importantly profit potential. is the reason for modern calibers.

But lets not forget the Girardoni Air Rifle of Lewis and Clark

This could be the most important historical gun in the history of the U.S. It was used by Lewis & Clark during their Corps of Discovery expedition from 1803-1806. The illusion of superior firepower this single air rifle created ”” opponents never knew if there was one air rifle or 38 air rifles ”” enabled the small band of explorers to safely travel from east to west and back again and claim an area greater than one-half of the landmass of North America for the U.S.

And it was a .46 caliber.. :grin:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Once upon a time I poured over the load tables with a calculator and came to the conclusion that the flattest shooting most efficient caliber was just about .52 to .53.

Are you the guy who once wrote an article for Muzzle Blasts that 'proved' .52 cal. was the best all-around for rb muzzle loaders? I recall that article. And, IMHO, it set out to prove a pre-decided conclusion. I didn't accept the final determination. The .50 is great all-arounder. So is the .54. I guess the .52 would be OK also.

 

[Jim C]

Can't see how anyone can go wrong with the fifty unless they are hunting animals over 300 lbs that are equipped with teeth and claws.

 

[Elkeater]

Can't see how anyone can go wrong with the fifty unless they are hunting animals over 300 lbs that are equipped with teeth and claws.

Yes, agreed, you can't go wrong with a .50 prb.
Although with the heavier .54 rb and similar velocity, momentum energy gives a little more reach. And a little bigger hole.

 

[LaBonte]

Based on actual RMFT era purchase orders for rifles from Henry, etc. The two most common would be the 50 and 54 in todays parlance.
Still other calibers were purchased.

FWIW - originally the French word caliber/caliber meant the same things a gauge aka balls per pound. By the 1850's caliber began to denote the actual measurement of the bore i.e. .54" caliber.
I have one Colt handgun advert from the 1850's that uses both gauge(balls per pound) as well as caliber in inches to describe the gun.

 

[George]

Could you post that, I'd like it for my file.

In mid-18th century the word caliber was also used as we use bore, to denote the inside of the barrel.

In 1791 Cleator said:

"As far as our reason and experience are sufficient for enabling us to determine upon the matter, we would reject all the expedients that have been hitherto proposed, and give decided preference to the barrels as they are usually made, i.e. to those whose caliber is smooth and perfectly cylindrical throughout."

And:

"One of the methods he describes is as follows: An iron or wooden mandril fitted to the caliber, is furnished at one end with small files which are cut transversely only; this instrument being introduced into the barrel is turned round by means of a cross-handle, and forms a great number of superficial scratches in the metal, by which, they pretend, the defect of scattering the shot is remedied. One obvious effect of this operation is that of destroying the smoothness of the barrel within, and thereby rendering it liable to dirty the sooner, but we cannot conceive how the shot should be thrown closer by having the friction increased between it and the sides of the caliber, and that this will be the case, is evident, from a rough barrel being always found leaded considerably after every discharge."

Spence

 

[galamb]

200 years from now if a history of the modern "oil patch" was written you might probably read that workers in the oil patch favoured 1/2 ton pick-ups as their "vehicle of choice".

That doesn't mean that there wasn't a few smart cars, small Chevy's and probably even an old AMC Gremlin partially held together with duct tape.

Likewise, if someone heading west back when wanted a rifle "specifically made" for the MOUNTAINS they most probably carried something in the 50-54 caliber range (some famous men carried (at least at one point): Medina (Modina - various spellings): 50 cal, Bridger: 52 cal, Carson: 54 cal, Liver Eating Johnson: 56 cal

But none of that means that old "Billy Bob" who came west from Maryland or Ohio didn't carry and use his 45 cal or "Daddy's" 38 that was used during the war and was all he could afford to own.

The histories were written about the "famous guys" and what they carried, not the average guy that tried it for a year or two or worked under contract for one of the big companies and maybe carried nothing more than a 5 dollar musket.

Yes, there can be some big nasty animals in the woods. But even today if I'm out hunting squirrels I don't carry a magnum rifle. And likewise, if I was trapping beavers or whatever, I might just feel safe enough with a 40 or a 45 if I couldn't afford the cost of a new 54 especially when other members of the "party", company men, might have a rifle or two with their job being to be on the look-out for grizz or unfriendly natives or whatever...

Just have to decide if you want to be "Bridger" or "Billy Bob"

 

[Rat Trapper]

galamb,
Good point!