What Caused The Crescent Shaped Butt?

[ShootistJack]

(and the curved comb)

I really like the look of the Jaeger rifle buttstock, and the overall look of that rifle design including its overall length. The rifles that I've learned are called "transitional", that were designed in the American colonies prior to the Lancaster, and the rest of the Pennsylvania rifles, I also like, but I'm not sure if I find them more attractive than the Jaeger design. (I need to see more pictures of those.) As to the rifles that began to exhibit the curved comb and the crescent shaped butts, to my eye they started looking less attractive. Why did the rifle's butts become crescent shaped, and combs develop the curve?

 

[DuncNZ]

I'd guess most ,if not all, of the shooting done with these rifles was off hand . The crescent butt plate set into your shoulder pocket , what he calls the crook , gives a very firm third point of contact between the rifle and the shooter . It is good for both shooting level or up into the trees for squirrels . It is not a feature I'd want on a hard recoiling rifle but on a rifle up to .45 it would be fine . The Jager was originally a big bore short barrel rifle and often shot prone , the broad butt plate would spread the recoil .
It is firearms evolving to fit the needs of the area . Form follows function .

 

[ShootistJack]

You bring out sound "points", not to be funny.

 

[Freedom]

The horse was the reason for the development of the Crescent rifle butt. The Crescent butt allows a rifle to be controlled and shoulder-fired with one hand. The other hand is free to control your mount.

 

[ShootistJack]

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to handle such longrifles while riding.
Are you saying they would RELOAD these longrifles while riding the horse?

 

[Freedom]

Well the old timers that I knew all claimed that the horse is the reason for the Crescent, and why Winchester kept the crescent butt plate on their rifles all the way into the 1900s.
As westward expansion grew, so did the use of the horse... and at the same time we see the Crescent becoming more popular and common.

But I suppose the Crescent does very little to help when it comes to reloading a Colonial rifle from a pony's back
Then again if the Crescent allows for a more accurate shot you'd be the "fellow" left alive to perform the reload.

 

[Dartwick]

I think it was a triumph of form over function.

If you dont think it about it too hard the deep cresent seems like a good idea.


Also if you are bouncing about so much that you cant keep the butt against your shoulder - how are going to keep the other end lined up?

 

[Kansas Kid]

The saddle ring carbines kind of throw a wrench in that theory.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

The horse was the reason for the development of the Crescent rifle butt. The Crescent butt allows a rifle to be controlled and shoulder-fired with one hand. The other hand is free to control your mount.

Either you are trolling us, were gullible enough to believe the "old timers" or you have never rode a horse while trying to shoot.

 

[rchas]

As much as we might not want to admit it, shooters respond to whims of fashion... Styles change, and what looked good to one generation doesn't to another. I believe part of the reason for the popularity of deeply curved buttplates came from the rise of Schuetzen rifle competitions from the late 1700's into the mid/late 1800's. Schuetzen rifles were considered the epitome of off-hand shooting accuracy at the time, so.... (Hey that guy over there with the curved buttplate is shooting accurately, maybe I should have a curved buttplate too...)

 

[Freedom]

I don't know if it's funny or sad but most Americans east of the Mississippi, and half the folks west, seem to have forgotten the horse even existed.

We all talk about historical trecking, camping, hunting, and fighting, but not a single one of these activities was accomplished without the use of a horse.

If an item couldn't be used from the back of a horse, it was not are useful item!.. and the item was left behind. Your rifle had to work with your horse, it wasn't optional.

 

[oldwood]

Freedom475.................Just finished reading "44 Years of The Life A Hunter," by Meshach Browning. I enjoy the story line , because I grew up , hunted, and fished , in and about where he lived , in far Western Md. , and South Eastern Pa.. It is frustrating that he doesn't mention the mundane use of horses in daily life all that much. He had them , He was a dedicated hide and meat hunter ,and mentioned riding out 10 miles to hunt , taking all the game he could fit onto a horse , back home , then sending his kids back out to bring in the rest on horse back. Another frustration , he mentions he had a large caliber rifle for his every day use , and a smaller caliber rifle as backup , when the large bore had a flint lock break down. Again , no mention of details of the rifles. These details are largely left out of the histories , written at the time , not only Browning's , but most other records as well. Only reason for lack of detail is these points were so mundane , he figured including them in a memoir would make it too wordy. Too bad for us...................oldwood

 

[tenngun]

I think it was a triumph of form over function.

If you dont think it about it too hard the deep cresent seems like a good idea.


Also if you are bouncing about so much that you cant keep the butt against your shoulder - how are going to keep the other end lined up?

I do think style had much to do with it. We see it first on guns in well settled areas. Such as Golden Age Pennsylvania and Ohio guns along with Appalachian guns.
Was feature of Creedmore guns.
I suspect it was the equivalent of hoop skirts and bucked shoes

 

[rich pierce]

Foolishness.

 

[granth]

I recently made a thread about this topic. A forum user by the name of plmeek made a very in depth and good explanation on the reason for the curved buttplate. I recommend taking a look .

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/english-vs-american-stock-styles.146238/

 

[ShootistJack]

Thanks very much to you all for these thoughtful answers!

 

[The Crisco Kid]

With a long and muzzle heavy rifle the curved butt plate keeps the butt on your shoulder since the plate is positioned on the upper arm. Without that style of plate the butt will climb up and off the shoulder. With even a very muzzle heavy rifle I can release my right hand grip and with the left hand acting as a pivot point the schuetzen style plate keeps the rifle lined up on target. Besides that they just look cool and will leave some nice round bruises on your shoulder if you don't know how to use them.

 

[DuncNZ]

British riflemen were stalkers , they crept up on the deer in relatively open country and most often shot from the prone position with large caliber rifles(.62) or even lying on their backs with the barrel over their feet ,a crescent butt plate is not nice to shoot in these positions . The American hunters were woods men who usually shot off hand , the crescent butt plate made its way west in the form of the Hawken and other plains rifles .
The German hunters were dense forest and steep mountain shooters and shot from different positions but chose prone when suitable , The Jager rifles were generally short barreled and of a large caliber , the short barrel for maneuverability and the large caliber to nail the animal on the spot and not have it fall off a cliff or run off into the forest .The German penchant for short barrels and full length stocks on their hunting rifles still persists to this day .
Waterfowler butts were similar in all cases because "Form Follows Function "
Hand guns were , and still are more suitable for horsemen , When the Texas Rangers got Mr Colt's revolving pistols they started to defeat the Comanche in a big way , easier to use off a galloping horse than any rifle of the time .

 

[frankie]

(and the curved comb)

I really like the look of the Jaeger rifle buttstock, and the overall look of that rifle design including its overall length. The rifles that I've learned are called "transitional", that were designed in the American colonies prior to the Lancaster, and the rest of the Pennsylvania rifles, I also like, but I'm not sure if I find them more attractive than the Jaeger design. (I need to see more pictures of those.) As to the rifles that began to exhibit the curved comb and the crescent shaped butts, to my eye they started looking less attractive. Why did the rifle's butts become crescent shaped, and combs develop the curve?

I really like them

 

[billraby]

The purpose of the crescent butt plate is because it works very well for off hand shooting. In the second half of the 19th century it evolved into the schuetzen butt plates. Those are just a crescent butt plate taken to the extreme. Look at the modern competition target rifles. They have a stripped down and adjustable version of the crescent butt plate. It never went out of fasion. It became more specialized and still in use today on modern rifles.