What Caused The Crescent Shaped Butt?

[jimhallam]

First an apology -- - I am going to HAVE to refer to "unmentionables" ;-(

Baiscally there are 2 types of butt -- - "crescents" and "shotgun" (nearly flat buttplates).
As people have correctly stated, heavy recoil with a "cresecent" into the shoulder is PAINFUL.
In my opinion this pattern of butt is intended to be over the upper part of the arm; it developed from Germanic offhand shooting (as in traditional Schutzen matches); the right arm is raised level with the top of the shoulder whereas the left arm isagainst the ribcage, with the hand rotated -- so that the rifle is across the body. Without a palm rest the left hand is opened up -- - four fingers at the front and the thumb rearwards, so elevation is controlled by moving finger and thumb together.
Of course this method is only really suitable when the target is stationary - and match precision is needed.

The "shotgun" pattern fits into the hollow next to the collarbone and the rifle points FORWARD, being much more suitable for a moving target, and the body can be swung round from the hips.

Sorry about this next bit!!!
With a lever-action repeater (often in "pistol-calibres" - hence less recoil - so the curve can be on the shoulder, not the arm) the curved butt stops the butt slipping down as the lever is operated.

My thoughts only, and I could be wrong but I have had a fair bit of experience with offhand target-shooting (rifle and pistol) as well as L-A rifles.

Tom Rowe published a set of three books entitled "Alte Scheibenwaffen" is the definitive source for the traditional Germanic target-shooting -- still extant in the USA in certain states. There is also a book on PERCUSSION target rifles - sadly I loaned it to a"friend" and he says that he hasn't got it ;-(

 

[DixieTexian]

Either you are trolling us, were gullible enough to believe the "old timers" or you have never rode a horse while trying to shoot.

From Lone Star Justice: The First Century of the Texas Rangers:

 

[tenngun]

From Lone Star Justice: The First Century of the Texas Rangers:
View attachment 137602

It sounds like they were shooting as they went past the post to me here, not ‘accuracy’ but timing?

 

[Redlemur60]

Raise yer elbow! Thats all!

 

[DixieTexian]

It sounds like they were shooting as they went past the post to me here, not ‘accuracy’ but timing?

Given that they were fighting Comanches who had a reputation as excellent horseback archers, I would assume that they wanted to be able to shoot them from as far away as possible.

 

[deerstalkert]

It sounds like they were shooting as they went past the post to me here, not ‘accuracy’ but timing?

Accurate timing?

 

[hanshi]

This subject is not one I know much at all about. I can only guess it was, in part, fashion. Secondly The Appalachian rifles took curved BPs to the extreme for some understandable reasons. Thick woods and mountains rarely allowed prone shooting and most hunting shots were taken from a standing position. The radical curve of the butt plate didn't work all that well from a bench or prone positions. But the curve did work well by placing the butt on the upper arm. Squirrel hunting was very common and standing was the most practical shooting posture.

 

[tenngun]

Accurate timing?

No not accurate per se. But if your on a horse going twenty-twentyfive mph and you pass a ‘man sized post’ you point at close range as passing and shoot.
How long before brain says shoot, finger squeezes, lock works and boom, while in passing. If close enough you hit as long as you do it on time.
Gun horse dust speed not falling off requires its own skill

 

[deerstalkert]

skill equal to pass shooting. have busted a few balloons from horse back, takes practice.

and a smooth gaited horse!

 

[DuncNZ]

Given that they were fighting Comanches who had a reputation as excellent horseback archers, I would assume that they wanted to be able to shoot them from as far away as possible.

There was a lot of ritual and "Medicine" thinking with the Amerindians and the Texas Rangers were a different kind of enemy who had medicine which was beyond the Comanche way of thinking , The Rangers used pistols at full gallop . They would ride alongside a Comanche and shoot them at close range with their pistols .
Read Comanches , The History of a people by TR Fehrenbach ,
This is the best book on Amerindians I have ever read . It tells the story of the Comanche from the beginning , beliefs , war , hunting , social etc .It also tells a lot about the Amerindian mind set and way of thinking in general , about the coming of the horse to the plains people ,Fights with the Spanish , Mexicans and Whites . all in all a great book .
This the Amazon address .
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=comanche...hes,aps,284&ref=nb_sb_ss_mission-aware-v1_4_9

 

[BlazingIron]

Crescent shaped saddles!

 

[Twisted_1in66]

The horse was the reason for the development of the Crescent rifle butt. The Crescent butt allows a rifle to be controlled and shoulder-fired with one hand. The other hand is free to control your mount.

Would be very rare not to use both hands to shoot from horse-back, especially a longrifle. You use both hands to shoot and control your horse with your knees. My Grandfather had a ranch and he and my aunt would both shoot from a horse when the opportunity arose. Used their knees to direct the horse while shooting.

I never used my knees myself but I wasn't on a horse every day like they would have been. My wife grew up with her own horses and she'd ride one of them bareback all the time. She'd grab onto a handful of the horses mane and use her knees to direct the horse, same as my Aunt did. My wife was also the Oregon State Champion Barrel-Racer when she was 16 and later taught both Western and English style riding. So she's good with horses. Myself, anytime Grandpa had us saddle up the horses, it was to move cattle around on the ranch. So horses always meant work to me. Horseback riding was not something I'd do for fun...usually. We would take horses up into the mountains of California to a buck hunting camp a couple of times a year because that's the only way you could reach it. But usually saddle 'em up meant there was work to be done.

 

[Brian Anderson]

Thoughts: offhand shooting began with a crossbow which was held in front of you at right angles. early guns (cheekstocked or shouldered) with shorter lengths of trigger pull were still held in front of you - gradually through the 18th century styles changed, trigger pull lengthened, calibers reduced, and the rifle swung more parallel to the chest. The butt came to relate to the upper arm and the crescent became useful. Shotguns and the larger calibers continued to be held against the shoulder --- endless exceptions and lots of room to quibble
Brian

 

[tenngun]

Stocks evolved to fit the needs of the shooter. One can look at eighteenth century pistols. You can’t hold one like a Glock. They weren’t used like Glocks.
One is not silly and the other right.
You can’t pick up a AR 15 and hold it like a golden age rifle, or Vis-a-versa
The upper arm cross body hold presents a stable platform for long range fine shooting. A feature a FDC or Carolina gun didn’t need.
a Bess or Charlie is a spear that shoots. Not a M1 that’s made to hit hard at longer range that would only be a spear at last resort.

 

[Robby]

Back in the day, in order to gain symmetry, a well known gun smithy said tradition and comfort be damned, and made a buttplate to match the crescent moon he so carefully inlayed onto the cheek rest. And like the naked emperor, the style was taken as rifle building gospel. And that is the rest of the story.
Robby Harvey