What gun for early 1700's Virginia.

[JohnBHM]

One of my customers family owned a tabacco plantation from the late 1600's until the early 1700's. After seeing a couple of my flintlocks he asked if I could build him one that could have been used by his family during that time. My question is what might a plantation owner in the early 1700's been able to acquire.

 

[Brazos John]

My ancestors landed in 1732. I'll be watching this thread.

 

[Brokennock]

Here we go again,,,,
Who's got the popcorn?

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Most likely to order a fowling piece from a London maker.

 

[nchawkeye]

More than likely a fowler, imported from England.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

Early 1700 is most likely as previously stated an English fowler.
Mid 1700's Haymaker
Mid/Late 1760'ish Virginia style rifle.
I'd show him examples of all of them and let him decide.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Let's be clear here folks, the OP said a period including the 1600s to the beginning of the 1700s. German immigrants probably did not show up until the 1680s in the colony of Pennsylvania and some may have brought rifles. I doubt there were many if any rifles in Virginia at that time except for a rare English rifle here and there, which quite possibly could have been a breech loading "deer park" rifle. A land owner with means would most likely own a good quality English smooth bored gun made in London. Now what would that look like. Well, not like a mid-18th century English fowler. It might have a good quality dog lock or perhaps even an earlier type 1 English lock converted from a snaphaunce. Makers such as Tarles, Brook, Crisp, Barnes would all represent mid-late 1600s production. Later near the turn of the century styles by Dolep, Lewis Barbar, Humphrey Pickfatt, and Nicholas Paris might represent good quality sporting guns. These would have flintlocks usually with Dutch or French characteristics and borrow heavily from those countries with respect barrels and stocks. Any engraving would be simple "strawberry leaf" style until almost the 1700 and then more sophisticated French designs would start showing up. No Virginia long rifles, no mid-18th century English fowlers, no Northwest trade guns. If the owner was involved with militia (trained bands) during Bacon's rebellion and suppression of native Americans, he might also have an English or dog lock musket or large bore carbine (not anything like a Brown Bess).

dave

 

[FlinterNick]

One of my customers family owned a tabacco plantation from the late 1600's until the early 1700's. After seeing a couple of my flintlocks he asked if I could build him one that could have been used by his family during that time. My question is what might a plantation owner in the early 1700's been able to acquire.

Early trade guns, Barbar and Wilson Locks. A lot of early English guns basically, dog locks, Dutch made arms. Dare I say this, but not American Style Rifles.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Perhaps something like the doglock in the foreground.

 

[Widows Son]

Plantation owners of that era were not like we imagine the plantation owners of the mid 19th century. The agricultural technology and economics were markedly different. (Jamestown and Plymouth were within living memory.)

To put it in modern perspective think “lower middle class”.

So, such a firearm would be a utilitarian plain sturdy smoothbore; the same as every other working class person that could afford to own a gun.

 

[Widows Son]

If this gentleman’s family was in the small percentage that was “upper class” for the era, maybe a fancier firearm might be owned. Maybe.

 

[CuNosecap]

Dave Person, that was so well written and informative concerning weapons that predate most of what "we" commonly think of and encounter. Thank you.

 

[JohnBHM]

I did visit a cotton plantation some years ago and they explained that there was a " rifle " kept in the house. When meat was needed one of the servants who was designated as the hunter was given the gun and very limited ammo possibly one shot to bring back game. The gun on display was not correct and was only there as a representation.

 

[dave_person]

Early trade guns, Barbar and Wilson Locks. A lot of early English guns basically, dog locks, Dutch made arms. Dare I say this, but not American Style Rifles.

Hi,
Lewis Barbar, not James and no Richard Wilson. He starts after the second decade of the 18th century.

dave

 

[JohnBHM]

Hi,
Let's be clear here folks, the OP said a period including the 1600s to the beginning of the 1700s. German immigrants probably did not show up until the 1680s in the colony of Pennsylvania and some may have brought rifles. I doubt there were many if any rifles in Virginia at that time except for a rare English rifle here and there, which quite possibly could have been a breech loading "deer park" rifle. A land owner with means would most likely own a good quality English smooth bored gun made in London. Now what would that look like. Well, not like a mid-18th century English fowler. It might have a good quality dog lock or perhaps even an earlier type 1 English lock converted from a snaphaunce. Makers such as Tarles, Brook, Crisp, Barnes would all represent mid-late 1600s production. Later near the turn of the century styles by Dolep, Lewis Barbar, Humphrey Pickfatt, and Nicholas Paris might represent good quality sporting guns. These would have flintlocks usually with Dutch or French characteristics and borrow heavily from those countries with respect barrels and stocks. Any engraving would be simple "strawberry leaf" style until almost the 1700 and then more sophisticated French designs would start showing up. No Virginia long rifles, no mid-18th century English fowlers, no Northwest trade guns. If the owner was involved with militia (trained bands) during Bacon's rebellion and suppression of native Americans, he might also have an English or dog lock musket or large bore carbine (not anything like a Brown Bess).

dave

Thanks Dave
Would you know of any options in kit form that might be available. My gun building experience is very limited but I am not new to woodworking and am always up to a challenge.

Thanks again, John.

 

[JDBraddy]

Am curious to watch this thread, according to Ancestry, (not sure how much to believe), my first ancestor on this continent was a teenager from Sussex, who arrived at Isle of White Virginia as an endentured Servant to the Virginia Co. around 1620, don't know what the rules where, but doubt he would have been allowed to own much of anything, especially a firearm.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

As far as rifles being used in Virginia look at what Shumway has written in Rifles of Colonial America. The first gunsmith came to Virginia in 1608 and many more followed. he goes on to point out various documentation showing that rifles were being used in Virginia long before Pennsylvania even became a colony. We seem to think that Pennsylvania as being the birthplace of the rifle but Virginia seems to have had quiet a head start on that.

 

[Muley Gil]

Am curious to watch this thread, according to Ancestry, (not sure how much to believe), my first ancestor on this continent was a teenager from Sussex, who arrived at Isle of White Virginia as an endentured Servant to the Virginia Co. around 1620, don't know what the rules where, but doubt he would have been allowed to own much of anything, especially a firearm.

I have one ancestor, John Davis, who was born in Isle of Wight County, Virginia, in 1706. Haven't been able to go back farther than that in the Davis line.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

As has been stated, economic factors of the individual planter would determine the firearm. A planter in the realm of the Byrd, Taliaferro, Randolph, etc. would be very unlikely to be using a trade gun as a personal arm. Also, the OP is asking what a planter could acquire in the early 18th century specifically. With the mercantile economy he would more than likely have birding piece made in England and possibly a brace of pistols based on my experience in looking thru VA inventories.
By the 1740s you begin to see a few rifle guns showing up in western piedmont inventories.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
In Harold Gill's "The Gunsmith in Colonial Virginia" he identifies 212 gunsmiths working in Virginia during 1607-1800. Of those, only 14 were known to work in the 17th century. There is a rifle barrel found in Virginia that predates 1640 and a handful of others documented during the 1600s. All may have been imported and none may have been made in the colony. Was there a big thriving gunmaking industry in 17th and early 18th century Virginia? Gill suggests no. He writes that one big issue for all tradesmen working in Virginia is that customers, including the colony, wanted to pay with tobacco forcing the tradesmen to have to convert that to things they needed and at the same time were competing to sell tobacco with the big plantation growers. This was just another way for the big growers to exploit workers. Gunsmiths refused to accept tobacco and were eventually forced to do so by the colonial government. According to Gill, the earliest reference to a gun actually made in Virginia is 1693. Certainly there were guns made in VA before then but it still implies the industry for making complete guns was small with most smiths repairing and restocking imported guns.

dave