What happens at the muzzle

[Idaho Ron]

When a Paper Patched bullet is shot. Here is a video of what happens in slow motion. Ron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCJnYh9UVMg

 

[50cal.cliff]

When I first saw I thought it looked as if the bullet path was slightly deflected when the paper peeled off. However after watching it a few times I decided it was an optical illusion!

Now I see though why it is always, wait for the smoke to clear the gas cloud, expels slowly and hangs while the bullet is already down range.

Seeing it all in slow motion opens up some new insight! Really cool! :wink:

 

[Hawkeye]

Now that is cool!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Possibly it does. But the spin corrects the wobble almost immediately. The mass of the paper is so much less than the mass of the bullet it wouldn't be much, though.

 

[dbutch]

WoW...Look at all that un-burnt powder coming out the barrel.. :rotf:
Great video!

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Ron,
Do you know the frame rate used to do the video? One of the reasons I tried to do this with a patched ball is that I REALLY wanted a paper patch separating from a conical. I tried 15,000 fps but my gut says this was faster. Maybe 20,000.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Idaho Ron]

I don't know anything about the film. I saw it the same as you guys. I think it is super cool that you can see the bullet break the sound barrier.
I don't think what is being seen is wobble at all. The paper is cut by the grooves and lands when the bullet bumps up and goes down the barrel. I think what is being seen is just the paper coming off the bullet, and the sound barrier being broken.
Man that thing is a flame thrower he needs about 10 more inches of barrel. Ron

 

[Idaho Ron]

Did you see his flintlock videos and the others? Ron

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Ron,
He doesn't give any camera info on youtube, but I know it isn't easy to do. I plan to contact him for more on the camera. The link below shows a number of flintlocks igniting. These are the lock only, not the gun. We did these at Friendship in 2009 with the help of Olympus Industrial.

Slow Motion Locks

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Tumblernotch]

I don't know anything about the film. I saw it the same as you guys. I think it is super cool that you can see the bullet break the sound barrier.
I don't think what is being seen is wobble at all. The paper is cut by the grooves and lands when the bullet bumps up and goes down the barrel. I think what is being seen is just the paper coming off the bullet, and the sound barrier being broken.
Man that thing is a flame thrower he needs about 10 more inches of barrel. Ron

I didn't see the sound barrier being broken but I did see some gas passing the bullet.

 

[necchi]

Watch the bullet closly between 12-16 seconds,
There are pressure changes that happen when something goes super sonic.
A wave in front is passed then disrupted as it passes into low pressure behind.
The bullet is supersonic when it leaves the muzzle,, what we see is what happens to the atmosphere around the bullet.

Of course that all doesn't take 4 seconds, it's 4 seconds of film that's taken as the bullet moves just inches from the muzzle.
I noticed too that the muzzle doesn't move in recoil, the barrel must be vice mounted.
A scale or measure to show distance traveled would have added data,(a board with marks) but maybe there was one that's been cropped out of the film.

 

[Rifleman1776]

WoW...Look at all that un-burnt powder coming out the barrel.. :rotf:
Great video!

:stir: :stir: :stir:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Very interesting. Don't know what, if anything, it teaches us.
Amazing photography.

 

[Dphar]

Outstanding.
I have read of the PP being cut by the bullet but I have never seen any proof of this from recovered patches and I used to shoot quite a but of PP from BPCR. The video shows pretty well what I would have thought based on recovered patches.
I don't think the rifling in todays (or most historical) BPCR and Slug Guns is deep enough to cut the patch even if its only .003 per side as per .015 onion skin. Some of the "Meachem" Sharps barrels of the 1870s 80s might have been.
I would love to see a slo-mo of a PP shot in a BPCR with a .020 short case. This always cuts a ring of paper off the patch and it even shows on recovered slugs.
This is way cool.
The Gov't labs and such have had this sort of techology for looking at modern stuff its great that people like Pletch and the maker of this video are applying it to BP shooting.

We now need, as 1776 indicates some slow mo of heavy RB loads to see if there is unburnt powder.

Darn every time I see something like this I think of 1/2 doz or more other things I want to see.
Better check his other videos I guess.

Dan

 

[Tumblernotch]

Both the bullet and the gases that preceded it were supersonic as they left the muzzle. The gas dissipated as soon as it hit open air. I see the bullet pass through it and the gas is dissipated further by the turbulence and vacuum behind the bullet. I don't see the bow wave commonly seen in pictures of aircraft or other high speed bullets being bent and ruptured by the projectile. Still a neat video though.

 

[Idaho Ron]

If you stop the video at .13 and click it on and off through .14 you can see it right in front of the bullet. As the bullet passes through it at .15 the paper is starting to shred. Ron

 

[Idaho Ron]

Very interesting. Don't know what, if anything, it teaches us.
Amazing photography.

Your not sure if it teaches anything. I am not sure that everything we see needs to teach something. We did get to see some slow mo of black powder and a bullet. I am sure he didn't post it to teach, but to entertain.
If you want to see his flintlock, and percussion stuff it is right there. You most likely won't learn much there either but it is cool. Ron

 

[George]

Check out his videos Kentucky Flintlock Muzzle Blast 01 and 02.

Spence

 

[Idaho Ron]

Dan and the others that want to see the comparison to PRB. Here are the guys videos of the flintlock. No one knows for sure what the load is. They are all flame throwers. I don't think one is more efficient than another just by the videos. Ron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQv8Oy_NPVs&feature=channel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjyxAVYMZA&feature=channel&list=UL

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Outstanding.. . . . .
I would love to see a slo-mo of a PP shot in a BPCR with a .020 short case. This always cuts a ring of paper off the patch and it even shows on recovered slugs.
This is way cool.
The Gov't labs and such have had this sort of techology for looking at modern stuff its great that people like Pletch and the maker of this video are applying it to BP shooting.

We now need, as 1776 indicates some slow mo of heavy RB loads to see if there is unburnt powder.

Darn every time I see something like this I think of 1/2 doz or more other things I want to see.
Better check his other videos I guess.
Dan

Dan,
I have video of a patched round ball exiting the muzzle, but it's not a hot load. It does show the patch spinning as it leaves the ball.

I agree that this is motivation to try a bunch more things. I want a view of the PP bullet close enough to see the rifling. I think we can learn from all of this. If I could stop a 540 gr bullet in my garage reliably, I could do this with a still camera. The ball in the pic below was traveling 1000 fps. Why couldn't we load a PP bullet to the same velocity and do the same thing?

Regards,
Pletch