What is a good pattern with a ML shotgun

[RayJ]

This may be a question with as many answers as people answering.I started a thread a few days ago stating that I was getting better patterns with 777 than real BP.This was at twenty yards.The standard for checking patterns is a 30" circle at 40 yards but this is with modern guns.I've tried 40 yards and I doubt I could kill much at that distance.So,My question is,at what distance do you typically pattern your gun and what standard do you measure it by.I was just eyeballing it and saying "this looks good and this doesn't".What do you want in a pattern and at what distance.I was really judging the tightest at 20 yards and using an approx.20" hand drawn circle.My full choke was keeping most pellets in that circle.My Mod choke was almost as good.I tried thirty yards a few days before that and I feel like that would be my max distance with the patterns I was getting.Do any of y'all pattern out to 40 yards?

 

[RayJ]

Is there any way to post pics on here from my phone?I have several pics of the best patterns.

 

[coloradoclyde]

download to your computer then read this http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/255033/

 

[Alden]

If effectiveness is the issue than bck into your answer...

What is happening at the target?

How much lead did you throw?

How fast?

Consider the usual and customary measurements to be applicable and take any differences into consideration. What kind of gun the shot is coming out of is immaterial to the target it is delivered upon.

 

[RayJ]

I don't have any idea how fast my shot is.As far as how much lead,I was shooting #4 ITX shot,#6 lead shot,and 7 1/2 lead shot.All about 1 1/4 oz,maybe a little less.I also was using 60-70 gr Triple7 and 80-90gr Goex BP.I had several patterns that were absolutely terrible at 20 yards but with a little work,I determined that the choke was the problem.I guess it was just a lemon.I tried it in both barrels with the same amt of powder and shot used in other barrel with same choke and it always had a terrible pattern(very few pellets on the paper at 20 yards).I bought it at Academy for 14.95.It will go in the trash.I shot all patterns with either a full or Modified choke.

 

[Alden]

Well, in brief, then if the weight and shot pellet size are the same as you're likely to use in a smokeless shell than I'd say it's safe to assume you want at least the same 70-75% of the pattern in that 30" circle at the optimal range. At least (there being a good chance the velocity is a little lower)!

The latter you should calculate or test I'd suggest...

 

[Wes/Tex]

Just as a basic rule of thumb, I think of muzzle loading 'range' at 25 to 30 yards rather than the 40 yards used by breech loading shotguns. Look at the consistency of the patterns you are getting and watch for blank areas on the pattern sheet. As for impact, measuring velocity is tough and to a waste of time for shot. If you shot pellets can penetrate the side of a #303 tin can, they'll do the job on small game and upland birds...even ducks over decoys. Just shoot and adjust till you get good, well covered groups. If that only comes at 25 yards, then you have to be patient and limit your shots to ranges you can cover fully. Good luck.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

25yds is a fairly standard range for comparison-patterning of closer-range loads, guns, and/or chokes. My muzzleloading smoothbores are unchoked, so what I'm looking for is consistent even patterns, and the desired pattern density depends on the intended targets. If I can benefit from longer range for the intended use and my 25yd pattern is more than dense enough, then I'll do some extrapolation and maybe some patterning to establish how far I can push things with this load for that application.

As Wes mentioned, a common rule-of-thumb is that penetration (by the majority of shot hitting fairly square on) of one side of a steel juice or food can should be adequate for small game and birds up to duck size and for head/neck shots on turkeys and such, and penetration of both sides of the can should be adequate for most geese. For this test, I'd recommend that you brace the can against something, because penetration is less consistent if the can is free to recoil.

If you want to get technical in analyzing your patterns, you can use a digital photo of the pattern and the free online version of the Shotgun Insight program fairly painlessly. If I recall correctly, the free version will still let you extrapolate the pattern to ranges other than what you fired it at, so you can work out how far you retain sufficient pellet density.

Regards,
Joel

 

[RayJ]

Thanks.That is exactly what I wanted to know.I'm mainly going to be duck hunting over decoys but there will be days when the ducks are flying just past the decoys and longer shots may be necessary.Still,30 yards would be max I would think,maybe 35.I will use 25 as my standard though.I thought 40 was a little long but I've read articles where guys say that ML shotguns can rival modern shotguns and I wasn't so sure about that.

 

[Wes/Tex]

All you can do is experiment with shot/powder combos, maybe paper shotcups or some other type till the gun gets happy. The check on the pattern board to see how far the pattern stays viable. If the duckies come on over on oxygen, all you can do is cuss!

 

[54ball]

This is what I do. It's very unscientific.

I take an aluminum coke can "pop" or "soda pop" depending on region or beer can and blast it at different ranges.

When I can't consistently kill the can, I'll try to tweak the load till I can. If no luck I have found my range IE the longest distance I can kill the can.

:redface: no puns or poetry intended :shocked2:

 

[RayJ]

Where I'm from it is definitely "coke" can.Yea,I would say your method is unscientific but it works for you.At least you've done that much.Up to now,I really haven't tried to pattern much at all.I shot a few shots into poster board and went hunting.I've killed ducks the last season or two but decided that I would get serious this year and work some good loads up for ducks and anything else I may hunt.

 

[410-er]

I like 25yds. but here is the only pics I have of patterns.I was setting up a OLD 17ga fowler with no chokes and #6 shot.Left is 20yds and right is 15yds.

 

[RayJ]

Thanks for the pics.I may go out today after church and try it some more from 25 yards.The pic on the left looked like some of mine from 20 yards and I never had one as tight as the one on the right.It's hard to judge how big yours are.I was using regular poster board and had drawn about a 20" circle on it.The full choke usually put most of the shot in that 20" circle.The Mod choke seemed almost the same.I noticed your left pic had the pattern a little left.Mine did the same thing with my left barrel.

 

[roundball]

Some examples I play around with for pattern AND penetration testing”¦3.5” tuna cans suggested by member DaveK years ago, and some downloadable turkey targets I came across:

.54cal(28ga) Early Virginia smoothbore, straight cylinder bore
#4 / #5 / #6 chilled lead shot




.62cal Early Virginia, Jug Choked Full
#4 chilled lead shot




32” GM .62cal smoothbore barrel on a T/C Hawken, Jug Choked Full
#6 Hard lead shot




32” GM .62cal smoothbore barrel on a T/C Hawken, Jug Choked Full
#6 EcoTungsten/Niceshot

 

[Patocazador]

I wouldn't worry about regulating barrels until you find the "sweet" load.

I have 2 SxS guns and one shoots the left barrel to the left of POA and the right one shoots right and high. My other one shoots to POA with the left barrel and low with the right.
I have not found a sweet spot or range where either gun will shoot both barrels to POA.

 

[azmntman]

Is this typical, barrells not to POA? I got rid of a nice 10ga dbl pedersoli as I got tired of trying to remember to aim right/left while duck hunting.

Got new/old 20 ga dbl have not shot yet. I really hpe its better. At 30 yds the 10ga was like 8-12 inches left/right of poa

 

[RayJ]

Thanks for the pics of "can" and turkey patterns.Looks good to me.I have read some say that if the pellets can penetrate a steel can,then on birds,penetration should be no problem.

 

[RayJ]

My right barrel seemed to shoot right on POA.The left is a little left of POA but not enough that I would fret too much over it at 20 yards and under.I do need to shoot alot at 30 yards though.How do you regulate barrels?What if my POA is off quite a bit at 30 yards?Is there any way to move it where you want or do I use "Kentucky Windage"?

 

[Dave K]

You can regulate the barrels some by removing a little metal at the muzzle. If your POI is left of what you want, open the left side of the barrel just a little and try again. The escaping gas on the left side of the barrel will move the shot column to the right. It is not unusual at all to see original SXSs that the muzzles are not square. This is because the barrels were regulated to shoot the same POI as the other barrel. You can see there are 2 ways to do this regulating. One is trim the inside of the barrel, the other is to alter the angle of the muzzle to make the escaping gases move the pattern over. Works well for me.