What is a Real Pioneer

Had a little girl walk up to me during a demo. She looked at me and then at my wife. She turns to my wife and asks, "Are you a real pioneer?"

Someone had told her she was going to see some real pioneers!

My wife was caught at a loss for words. WOW!!!

Being the teacher I am I quickly answered the question with a question.

"What do you think?"

"You look like pioneers, You act like pioneers. I guess you are pioneers!"

I been thinking about that for two weeks. What does it take to be a pioneer? Can we be pioneers in this day and age?

In 1898, when the frontier era was declared over, did all of the pioneers cease to exist?

A government can officially change the status of the land with the stroke of a pen. Does the fact that there are more than two people per square mile in the state where I reside mean that I can not consider myself, decended from pioneer stock, the continuation of the linage?

What does it take to be a pioneer?

:hmm: :hmm:

 

[loophole]

Ghost, you asked, so I'll give you my opinion.
How many of your infant children did you bury because you could not give them medicine or doctoring? Ever notice the little graves and headstones in a real pioneer cemetary?
How many nights have you spent sleeping on the ground in the snow, or shivering in a bed in an unheated cabin in the winter? Those old cabins look quaint in a state park, but I have slept in one and it's not something you'll want to do a lot in the winter.
How often did you wake up to find foxes had killed all your chickens, or late frost had taken your crop, and worried about how you would feed the little ones? How many of us ever risked starvation if our hunting or farming skills weren't good enough to put food on the table?
How close have you come to having to kill a man to protect your home and family because you were far beyond the reach of the law? Have you ever been in a situation where your life depended on your ability to protect yourself?
We Americans have no idea how our ancesters sacrificed and suffered to settle a wilderness and have the privilege of living free. We cannot recapture that by learning what their clothes and tools looked like or how to make molasses and cook over an open fire.
There is nothing wrong with reenacting, but I won't call myself a pioneer because I can dress like Simon Kenton, any more than I'd call myself a soldier because I wear a proper-looking uniform.

 

"pioneer" can be looked at (at least) two ways: (1)a 'copy' of our ancestors on the then frontier or (2)someone who still has the spirit of a pioneer. We probably cannot relive the past exactly but we can have the spirit of our pioneer ancestors...we can still seek out the frontiers of our world, even if we do not have to suffer all of the hardships, such as primitive medicine and tools. At times I have felt like a pioneer (perhaps a poor copy)when penetrating the jungle-covered mountains of South America, or the great desert wildernesses of our own Death Valley/Mojave area, or the wilds of Alaska in pursuit of geological knowledge. There were times and places where I was beyond modern medicine and modern technology, although dressed modern and "dropped in" by modern means....no, not a pioneer in the same sense, but maybe just a whiff of the spirit?

 

[Stumpkiller]

"One of the first to settle in a territory."

Many of the trappers, plains hunters and longhunters would not be pioneers as we portray them. They are not settling, just camping temporarily. The pioneer would be the guy with the axe, hoe and plow, too busy scratching out a living to attend a rendezvous. Yet willing to pick up a musket and leave it for a year with no guarantees of what will be left to gain or keep an independant nation. I honor their memories because I am in awe of their sacrifice.

Most of America was already "settled" before the first Europeans arrived, so I guess the Native Peoples were the true pioneers. They bailed out most of our early settlements until the introduced crops sprouted, and then it was "Westward Ho!"

The places they were too smart to try and occupy year-round I guess are up for grabs. Now we have insurance and disaster relief and keep rebuilding instead of following the herds or seasons. The pioneers had bull-headed determination and no choice but to stick it out and make it work once they were planted.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Ghost, you asked, so I'll give you my opinion.
How many of your infant children did you bury because you could not give them medicine or doctoring? Ever notice the little graves and headstones in a real pioneer cemetary?
How many nights have you spent sleeping on the ground in the snow, or shivering in a bed in an unheated cabin in the winter? Those old cabins look quaint in a state park, but I have slept in one and it's not something you'll want to do a lot in the winter.
How often did you wake up to find foxes had killed all your chickens, or late frost had taken your crop, and worried about how you would feed the little ones? How many of us ever risked starvation if our hunting or farming skills weren't good enough to put food on the table?
How close have you come to having to kill a man to protect your home and family because you were far beyond the reach of the law? Have you ever been in a situation where your life depended on your ability to protect yourself?
We Americans have no idea how our ancesters sacrificed and suffered to settle a wilderness and have the privilege of living free. We cannot recapture that by learning what their clothes and tools looked like or how to make molasses and cook over an open fire.
There is nothing wrong with reenacting, but I won't call myself a pioneer because I can dress like Simon Kenton, any more than I'd call myself a soldier because I wear a proper-looking uniform.

That doesn't address the issue, it only poses the question, "has Ghost experienced those things?"

The question in my mind is, could Ghost handle them if he was called upon?. I think he could. You can't say a man is not brave just because his bravery hasn't been tested yet. Being a pioneer or being brave has to do more with your "spirit" than your experiences.
:imo:

 

Ghost, you asked, so I'll give you my opinion.
How many of your infant children did you bury because you could not give them medicine or doctoring? Ever notice the little graves and headstones in a real pioneer cemetary?
How many nights have you spent sleeping on the ground in the snow, or shivering in a bed in an unheated cabin in the winter? Those old cabins look quaint in a state park, but I have slept in one and it's not something you'll want to do a lot in the winter.
How often did you wake up to find foxes had killed all your chickens, or late frost had taken your crop, and worried about how you would feed the little ones? How many of us ever risked starvation if our hunting or farming skills weren't good enough to put food on the table?
How close have you come to having to kill a man to protect your home and family because you were far beyond the reach of the law? Have you ever been in a situation where your life depended on your ability to protect yourself?
We Americans have no idea how our ancesters sacrificed and suffered to settle a wilderness and have the privilege of living free. We cannot recapture that by learning what their clothes and tools looked like or how to make molasses and cook over an open fire.
There is nothing wrong with reenacting, but I won't call myself a pioneer because I can dress like Simon Kenton, any more than I'd call myself a soldier because I wear a proper-looking uniform.

And what if I have experienced all of the things you list, and more. And since I have experienced these things I am viewed as one of the radical, lunitic fringe psychos from the dark side?

They placed their lives in danger and their families in harm's way, just to gain a piece of ground and an elusive image we call freedom. A danger to themselves and others, negligent to the welfare of their children due to inadiquite housing, building codes violators, emotionally abusive to their spouses due to maintaining no visible means of support.

I think you are probably right. It's illigal to be a pioneer in the 21st century.

:hatsoff:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

In Alaska back in the early 70's we bought part of an old homestead. When we built, we had no electricity, lanterns and candles for light, running water, yeah, you run down to the creek and got it, a two holer out back, heated the first winter with wood. (once we cut wood and did that for real, we never fed a fireplace for fun again)

Did we feel like pioneers? Not really, with wife & I being now well over three score, we just harkened back to the way we were raised in our childhood, so it was an inconvenience, not a travail. Our three kids loved it at the time, was all a big adventure for them.

 

[Tahquamenon]

"One of the first to settle in a territory."

That's it and it was the Native American's to do so here in North America.

The European as called themselves "Pioneer's" because they either drove off or eradicated the Native inhabitants to in turn "settle the frontier themselves".

Today in the 21st century here in America, we cannot be Pioneer's in the same sense as our forefathers.

I would have politely told the little girl the truth not answered a question with a question.

And as for Loophole's reply, I agree.
:agree:
If you wonder if you are a Pioneer as the folks that were truly referred to as such in the past, you need to ask yourself if you do experience those things and more, not if you "could" do so or have the spirit to do so. Not the same.
The answer is no. Now there are folks in the world that do live a pioneer's, but they are not very common here in America and certainly not if you have access to the internet. ::
We don't do those things or live that way and really cannot as we have our own culture not theirs. We have the choice to return to our modern civilization. True pioneer's did not have that luxury or option to have technological and cultural advancement to rely on. Just as we have ours from the 20th Century.

Sorry, we can only portray a foregone Pioneer in spirit not reality as compared to the past.

After we are long dead and gone, one of the things we will be considered to be are the pioneer's of information technology, which is but one of our "frontiers' in the 20th and 21st centuries.

:sorry:

:imo:

 

[Mulebrain]

I would consider Daniel Boone to be a Pioneer. I am currently reading Daniel Boone by John Faragher. I highly recommend reading this book! It was a very hard life, and the trek westward was no cake walk.

So many folks died, or were killed by Indians.

Here is the meaning of Pioneer from the Dictionary

NOUN: 1. One who ventures into unknown or unclaimed territory to settle. 2. One who opens up new areas of thought, research, or development: a pioneer in aviation. 3. A soldier who performs construction and demolition work in the field to facilitate troop movements. 4. Ecology An animal or plant species that establishes itself in a previously barren environment.
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of early settlers: the pioneer spirit. 2. Leading the way; trailblazing: a pioneer treatment for cancer.
VERB: Inflected forms: pi

 

[loophole]

Claude, I never questioned anyone's courage. If we have never been in combat (which I have not) we might like to think we'd do our duty under fire, but we never really know till we've been there, do we? We may admire the spirit and indurance of our ancestors, but how many of us really would leave the comforts of modern civilization if we had a chance to go settle a wilderness? I'll bet most of us, myself included, would freeze in the door. It is not meant as an insult to anyone--just a reflection on what happens to people when they are raised with the illusion of cradle to the grave security, never having to accept any serious consequences of our own mistakes, in an atmosphere which discourages self-reliance and personal initiative, and encourages us to trust government to tell us how to order our lives. I don't think many of us, regardless of how brave we are, would last a year under real frontier conditions.

 

In the context of what we believe a pioneer to be, as muzzleloader shooters, re-enactors, hunters, trappers and whatever other part of playing pioneer we participate in, no, we can't be real pioneers. I'm sure many of us come from pioneer stock but the era is gone by at leat 115 years and the early part of being a pioneer by over 300 years. But we can sure play at it, practice it, learn from it and put ourselves in as many similar situations as possible that they would have had to face. We don't have to worry about being scalped, burned at the stake, starving for whatever reason or lack of medical care, unless you're like me and have no health insurance. The world has changed and hopefully those times will never be again because if there is anything like them it will be anarchy. Anarchy bodes well for no one.

Still, playing pioneer is a lot of fun, gives pause for much reflection and I believe anyone who participates in it learns much about themselves and is often a better person for having done so.

Vic

 

[rayb]

well, under the definitions posted by Highpower, i am (or was until retirement) a pioneer according to item 3. I don't qualify under item 1. Althought i can claim a few modest successes, i don't qualify under 2. Hope i don't qualify under 4.

Since i don't reenact, i can't say how i'd have responded to the question as posed by Ghost. It's easy to say in hindsight that my reply would have been, "no, i'm just reenacting pioneer life." I'm not sure that is what i would have actually said. Knowing myself somewhat, probably something dumb.

I suppose the opportunities to qualify under item 1, are negligible, although i'm sure there are a few exceptions, similar to what Tanstaffel mentioned (sorry if mispelled).

There are still pioneers, just not very many in the context mentioned by Ghost.

So what should a muzzleloading hobbyist tell the little girl at the reenactment display?

Can't say, that's for those of you who actually do those things. Perhaps the answer is how you see yourself.

rayb

:imo:

 

[Slamfire]

I thought you had to, "Boldy go where no man had gone before". :crackup:

 

[2172]

When I was in the corporate world, I was often called a pioneer...I finally got a framed wall piece that said,
"a pioneer is a man face down with an arrow in his back"...or so it seemed to me..Hank

 

[hobbles]

For what it's worth,
I just watched a documentary that said the pioneer's followed the mountain men out west,,
it was just on tv,,,,

 

[Claude Mathis]

Here is the meaning of Pioneer from the Dictionary

NOUN: 1. One who ventures into unknown or unclaimed territory to settle.

Exactly. Nowhere does it say that you have to fight with Indians, have your livestock eaten by a wolves, or any of the other harrowing experiences that we like to think that everybody went through.

Some people moved west, started a farm, and worked their tails off to scrape out a living. They were never attack by anyone, they just worked hard and raised their families in very difficult conditions.

You don't have to undergo a long list of life threatening experiences to qualify.

 

[BLAHMAN]

I think there are pioneer's today. They look to the future and are optimistic, not pessimistic. They invent things, or make things in a certain way that alters our lives. I don't think that we must limit our thinking to what is often referred to as pioneers, those romantic images we often think of.

How about Jonas Salk? Bill Gates? How about the lowly seargent in WW II who figured out how to weld chunks of metal on Sherman Tanks so they could bust through German positions entreanched in hedgerows?

It's not just actions that makes one a pioneer, it's the ability to think, it's the ability to overcome those circumstances that seem to be un-obtainable.

:imo:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

"It's not just actions that makes one a pioneer, it's the ability to think, it's the ability to overcome those circumstances that seem to be un-obtainable."

Go where no one has before, improvise, innovate, adapt and overcome, sounds good to me for definition of a pioneer.

 

[oomcurt]

No offense meant..but the word pioneer today, as applied to Gates, etc. is sort of a modern take off on its original meaning, imo. To me..a pioneer is still one who puts the whole shebang on the line...do or die. Just like it was with the original emmigrants going west.

 

Obviously the word "pioneer" has slightly different meanings in different contexts...we have strayed from the original context by bringing up Bill Gates, etc...while I agree that a pioneer can be someone who advances knowledge or technology without risking life and limb, we were talking about a different kind of pioneer (I thought). The first men in space were real pioneers and did risk their lives. The first families that went into Kentucky were pioneers, even though the longhunters preceded them and even though the Indians long preceded both; but the first humans to enter North America thousands of years ago were real pioneers, like the first men in space, entering the total unknown....