What is the best book?

[Daryl Crawford]

What is your best recommendation for a book that has detailed instructions and photographs for disassembling, reassembling, and working on flintlock locks?
I've got a Russ Hamm lock that is really hard on trigger pull. I want to take it down and clean each part (fearing old lube that is basically gluing the lock) and I may need to reduce the main spring a bit.
I appreciate the input.

 

[morehops52]

Let me give you the view point from a former novice. After reading here on the forum I purchased a coil spring lock compressor and a "V" spring compressor from TOW. I took close up pics all along the way and disassembled both flint and percussion in coil and V spring locks. I cleaned up and polished every rotating and contact point and gave proper lube. I've gotten most triggers to 3-4 lb range. I had one Lyman perc lock that wouldn't let off below 6 lb even after two tries.. I finally took a magnifier to the sear surface and it looked pretty pocked. I used a (not recommended) Dremel tool with a worn bit and smoothed it out. That trigger now breaks at my target 3-1/2 lb.
My point is that if a ham fisted amateur like me can do it you can too! I know there is info here that can be searched and I expect you will get better responses than mine. But it's not rocket science and no need to be afraid of it.

 

[waksupi]

Russ Hamm's locks were never known as quality locks, and you will probably be limited in any fixes. I suspect your problem may be the trigger it's self. If it is a trigger that pivots on the trigger plate, that is the source of your bad trigger.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Daryl Crawford,

Not a book. L&R has information on the parts of a V-spring lock and a description of the disassembly process.

https://lr-rpl.com/diagram-of-parts-flintlock/

 

[Grimord]

If you suspect dried or gunked up lock parts, try putting the entire (assembled) lock in an untra-sonic cleaner. After about 30 min, take the lock out and blow dry it with compressed air, and lightly lube.

 

[bldtrailer]

call Brad at cabin creek the lock dr he can suggest what to do or he can fix it
(717) 757-5841 he has fixed and tuned several locks for me

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Russ Hamm's locks were never known as quality locks, and you will probably be limited in any fixes. I suspect your problem may be the trigger it's self. If it is a trigger that pivots on the trigger plate, that is the source of your bad trigger.

While I hear that, the lock trips hard when removed from the gun. I can cock it and it takes much hand strength to cause it to drop the cock. If possible, I think it operates harder off the gun.

 

[waksupi]

While I hear that, the lock trips hard when removed from the gun. I can cock it and it takes much hand strength to cause it to drop the cock. If possible, I think it operates harder off the gun.

Where is your trigger pinned?

 

[Daryl Crawford]

@waksupi I'm not sure. I'll attach pictures. I don't see a pin in the area where the trigger would rotate on.

 

[oldwood]

About 40 yrs. ago , I quit using single triggers mounted on trigger plates. There seemed to be too many positioning variables to get consistent trigger pull weights using them. I get what I want with pinning the trigger through the wood. One of the many quality locks on the market helps , as well. A little experimentation with sear position , back and forth on top of the pinned trigger controls creap to a tolerable level. I shot competition using set triggers on a long rifle. One day out hunting w/two friends , the guy I gave my competition set trigger rifle to , almost shot my other friend because the guy had set the trigger pull to light , and had forgot to take the lock off full cock , when a deer drive was over. The guy was not new to set triggers , but still almost made a deadly error as the gun went off errantly nearly killing my other friend. No more set triggers , for me.

 

[waksupi]

@waksupi I'm not sure. I'll attach pictures. I don't see a pin in the area where the trigger would rotate on.

I can see your trigger is mounted to the trigger plate, and is the biggest part of the problem you are dealing with. Get a proper single trigger and replace it. If you don't know how to pin it properly, find someone who can. You will cut your trigger pull dramatically.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Not disagreeing with you, your experience is well known and mine is minimal, but I'm confused by this lock. As I mentioned, removing the lock from the gun, cocking it and trying "fire it" (trip the sear) is actually harder than pulling the trigger and dropping the cock when it is mounted. I can barely push the sear by hand . While the trigger, as you note, is most likely an issue, something is up with this lock. I don't know if it's possible for the main spring to be so stiff it's an issue in tripping the sear.
I'm digging all over the web to see what info is out there on these locks. Lots of it isn't very helpful. Much suggests scrapping the lock rather than seeking to fix it. I don't need it to be the perfect smooth operator, but functional on a range would be good. That will be my goal for now.

 

[oldwood]

Before you junk the lock , send it to the Cabin Creek Lock Doctor. From what I've used , about 1 out of five locks need slight tuning involving the sear notches in the tumbler , and the sear nose. Inevitably , most of the locks I use need some touch up involving polishing and lubrication. Light wt. grease goes on the polished tumbler shaft , and sear notches. Sometimes , the sear spring is too strong , and not lubed properly. and grease always goes on the polished main spring bearing on the tumbler. Oil just doesn't do the job for long turm use , as well. Don't forget to grease polished frizzen spring bearing points. Lubriplate Grease , also called White Grease is excellent in flint locks. LOL

 

[waksupi]

Not disagreeing with you, your experience is well known and mine is minimal, but I'm confused by this lock. As I mentioned, removing the lock from the gun, cocking it and trying "fire it" (trip the sear) is actually harder than pulling the trigger and dropping the cock when it is mounted. I can barely push the sear by hand . While the trigger, as you note, is most likely an issue, something is up with this lock. I don't know if it's possible for the main spring to be so stiff it's an issue in tripping the sear.
I'm digging all over the web to see what info is out there on these locks. Lots of it isn't very helpful. Much suggests scrapping the lock rather than seeking to fix it. I don't need it to be the perfect smooth operator, but functional on a range would be good. That will be my goal for now.

Making the trigger right will change the leverage point to the amount that I'll bet your lock problem doesn't amount to much. If the lock does need tuning, send it to the person mentioned above, he has a good reputation.

 

[nchawkeye]

Couple of places to help you understand locks and how to build a trigger to help with trigger pull. Go to YouTube, Jim Kibler has a video on taking his locks apart, there may be another on yours, but his is worth watching as well. Get Foxfire 5, Hershel House explains triggers. You can also find this information in Peter Alexander's book, The Gunsmith of Granville County. Good Luck.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

The flat surface of the full cock notch needs to be in line with the center of the tumbler shaft. Without a close up photo I'd guess that's part of the the reason for the hard pull with the lock out of the gun. The notch is angled wrong. Different suppliers sell single triggers with the pin higher where it should be as mentioned. I've used this one in a few rifles and gotten a good pull by locating the trigger pivot pin 3/8" or a little less from the sear bar.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/920/3/tr-lr-1500

 

[waksupi]

The flat surface of the full cock notch needs to be in line with the center of the tumbler shaft. Without a close up photo I'd guess that's part of the the reason for the hard pull with the lock out of the gun. The notch is angled wrong. Different suppliers sell single triggers with the pin higher where it should be as mentioned. I've used this one in a few rifles and gotten a good pull by locating the trigger pivot pin 3/8" or a little less from the sear bar.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/920/3/tr-lr-1500

You don't want one someone else pinned to a plate. You remove the pin holding the trigger to the plate, insert a full trigger blank through the slot, then pin through the wood, and shape until the trigger has a bit of slack between trigger and sear. You do not want them to touch, they need just a tiny bit of free play.
You do not want one like in the link above, it will not solve the problem.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

You don't want one someone else pinned to a plate. You remove the pin holding the trigger to the plate, insert a full trigger blank through the slot, then pin through the wood, and shape until the trigger has a bit of slack between trigger and sear. You do not want them to touch, they need just a tiny bit of free play.
You do not want one like in the link above, it will not solve the problem.

The trigger in the link I posted has the pivot point well above the plate. Isn't that doing the same thing you mention which is to increase the distance from the trigger to the pivot point? Increasing the leverage acts like the lever and fulcrum concept which will reduce the weight of pull. The pin that holds the trigger to the plate assembly is barely visible in the photo. It's close to the top of the riser section of the assembly.

 

[waksupi]

The trigger in the link I posted has the pivot point well above the plate. Isn't that doing the same thing you mention which is to increase the distance from the trigger to the pivot point? Increasing the leverage acts like the lever and fulcrum concept which will reduce the weight of pull. The pin that holds the trigger to the plate assembly is barely visible in the photo. It's close to the top of the riser section of the assembly.

The problem is, it doesn't go high enough to gain the full mechanical advantage. A properly hung trigger will gain over a quarter inch over that hinged trigger. Makes a very big difference in the end result. I know of no triggers hinged to the plate that will give what I consider an acceptable trigger pull.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Here's a better photo of another trigger with a roll pin that I'll replace. With one just like it I have a clean trigger pull of just under 2 lbs on one of my guns. That's too light for most people but I'm used to light trigger pulls. It has enough sear engagement to be safe and can't be bumped off accidently. The two important things are keeping the distance from the roll pin pivot to the sear bar short and having the correct angle on the full cock notch in the tumbler. I think we're both talking about pretty much the same thing here.