What is the cleanest burning black powder?

[Okie Hog]

The Mad Monk wouldn't have agreed with that, rest his soul.

The Mad Monk, may he rest in everlasting peace, was a truly great person with a wealth of knowledge. He was also wrong about potassium perchloride in BP substitutes.

 

[Okie Hog]

What are these other ingredients etc. Gotta be more to the story

Of all the powders fired from muzzleloaders, the residue of two are very corrosive; both Pyrodex and black powder contain sulfur.

 

[hanshi]

If there is a black powder out there willing to come within a mile of "clean"; I missed it.

You gotta clean 'em up after shooting anyways.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The Triple 7 powder does leave less apparent fouling in the barrel. It is a valid substitute for volume replacement of black powder. It is also more energetic, meaning it develops more pressure than the equivalent volume of black powder. If you want to use it in your older, Damascus barreled percussion (substitute powders just don't work well in flint lock firearms), use at least 10% less by volume than the original black powder load. Just as a general rule, keep the loads for those Damascus barreled shotguns on the mild, but effective side.

 

[longcruise]

Of all the powders fired from muzzleloaders, the residue of two are very corrosive; both Pyrodex and black powder contain sulfur.

I'm always open to further education but you only offer a opinion. Why was the Monk wrong?

Don't mistake this for a pi$$ing match. I'd like to see what you are referring to.

 

[APG]

Clean burning black powder is an oxymoron. Thatbeing said Swiss seems to be the cleanest burning black powder.

 

[user 43911]

1 1/2 F Swiss followed by 1 1/2 F Olde Eynsford (Royal Blend whatever that is).

 

[Bushfire]

Swiss, end of thread.

 

[david w]

Swiss, end of thread.

Swiss, the saga continues!

 

[TScottW99]

Of the three brand I shoot, Swiss is the cleanest. I use it in my 10 gauge, FFg.

 

[Bunk]

American Pioneer powder in any label form does not accumulate fouling, essentially the gun is one shot dirty no matter how many shots. It works well in percussion guns mostly. The exception I have experienced is when used in my my Sharps or Smith carbines it take a little FFFFg nipple prime to insure reliable ignition.
I have doubts it would work in a flintlock.
Perhaps a little less potent than real Gunpowder but nor by much.
No more or less "corrosive" that normal black Gunpowder, is easier to clean and does not need lubed bullets.
Make smoke
Bunk

 

[Stantheman86]

777 is vastly under rated . I have access to real BP and I use that a lot too , but I'm glad 777 exists.

It's a snap to clean up. It's corrosive so clean like any other corrosive propellant. I fired my Euroarms Zouave at 12 noon today with 777, and it's currently sitting dirty in my car in the work parking lot at 8pm. And I won't get to clean it until 11 tonight. I might even get lazy and do it in the morning. It will be fine.

777 needs to be compressed so it really shines in percussion revolvers where you can compress the powder.

It is consistent, accurate and clean burning, I love it for range shooting. If 777 existed in the 1860's they'd have used it enthusiastically.

 

[TreeMan]

777 is vastly under rated . I have access to real BP and I use that a lot too , but I'm glad 777 exists.

It's a snap to clean up. It's corrosive so clean like any other corrosive propellant. I fired my Euroarms Zouave at 12 noon today with 777, and it's currently sitting dirty in my car in the work parking lot at 8pm. And I won't get to clean it until 11 tonight. I might even get lazy and do it in the morning. It will be fine.

777 needs to be compressed so it really shines in percussion revolvers where you can compress the powder.

It is consistent, accurate and clean burning, I love it for range shooting. If 777 existed in the 1860's they'd have used it enthusiastically.

Your statement is opposite of what is recommended for triple 7. I shoot it quite a bit also. It is highly recommended NOT to compress 777. The following is directly from Hodgens loading data:

Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this brochure. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do NOT reduce loads by means of filler wads of inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNING below [/color]

 

[Stantheman86]

Your statement is opposite of what is recommended for triple 7. I shoot it quite a bit also. It is highly recommended NOT to compress 777. The following is directly from Hodgens loading data:

Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this brochure. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do NOT reduce loads by means of filler wads of inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNING below [/color]

I have tried gently "seating" the Minie against the 777, with just two finger pressure and I was getting split-second lag fires , or double ignition where the gun makes that weird "boomBOOM" from the charge igniting in two phases.

I always now give the Minie 3 or 4 healthy thumps and then drop the rod a few inches onto the bullet , to fully seat it into the powder. I get instant ignition and good, consistent accuracy. I make sure the Minie is very firmly seated but I do pretty much the same with real Black, I'm just more conscious to be firm with loading with 777.

For revolvers I load 777 normally and firmly compress the powder, making sure there is a normal load and not a reduced or "light" charge. In years past I had nearly filled the chambers of revolvers with 777 and crushed the ball down but that's just a waste of powder. I don't know if that is Heavy Compression or if a loading lever is capable of enough force to dangerously compress anything.

I would guess this to mean more, like using a solid base bullet and thumping the bullet into the powder with all of your might, or loading bullets into cartridges with every possible grain that will fit under a bullet forced into the case.

This warning feels like it applies more to cartridge loading with loading presses, and people attempting to pack 777 into cartridges using the mechanical advantage of a press. I had always been "trained" to compress 777 and Pyro firmly to ensure good ignition and accuracy, I guess like anything else there is a limit to how far to go with stuff.

 

[Okie Hog]

Why was the Monk wrong?

Potassium perchlorate is a cheap way of boosting the puissance of BP substitutes.

All the black powder substitutes contain potassium perchlorate. Only the fouling from firing Pyrodex is seriously corrosive. Monk is wrong because the fouling of the other black powder substitutes is not seriously corrosive. If the fouling from potassium perchlorate was seriously corrosive the fouling of all the black powder substitutes would be equally corrosive.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/triple-seven-sds-sheet-2017.pdf
https://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/sds/Black_MZ.pdf
https://steveswholesale.nz/ocart30/image/msds/Gun Powder/pyrodex_pellets_2020.pdf

https://blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/2022-Blackhorn-209-SDS.pdf

 

[Encore50Cal]

I have 3 cans of Goex Clear Shot FFg. How does this compare load wise to black powder FFg? It says it is a black powder substitute and I have used it in my inline but I have recently obtained a TC Hawken 50 cal percussion. I am guessing it is safe to use in the Hawken.

 

[longcruise]

Potassium perchlorate is a cheap way of boosting the puissance of BP substitutes.

All the black powder substitutes contain potassium perchlorate. Only the fouling from firing Pyrodex is seriously corrosive. Monk is wrong because the fouling of the other black powder substitutes is not seriously corrosive. If the fouling from potassium perchlorate was seriously corrosive the fouling of all the black powder substitutes would be equally corrosive.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/triple-seven-sds-sheet-2017.pdf
https://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/sds/Black_MZ.pdf
https://steveswholesale.nz/ocart30/image/msds/Gun Powder/pyrodex_pellets_2020.pdf

https://blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/2022-Blackhorn-209-SDS.pdf

Those sheets prove the presence of sodium chloride and perchlorates. Both of which are corrosive to metals.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Sodium-chloride
Sodium Chloride | NaCl or ClNa | CID 5234 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more. ... Sodium chloride solutions are corrosive to base metals. Westphal G et al; Sodium Chloride. Ullmann's Encyclopedia ...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/perchloric-acid
Perchloric acid is extremely hygroscopic and a very powerful oxidizer. Contact of organic materials with anhydrous or concentrated perchloric acid can lead to violent explosions. For this reason, the application of perchloric acid has serious limitations.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/potassium-perchlorate
Solid-state iron and potassium perchlorate are reducing and oxidizing agents, respectively.

 

[Okie Hog]

Those sheets prove the presence of sodium chloride and perchlorates.

Yep, i know all that stuff. Fact is, that of all the black powder substitutes, only the residue of Pyrodex is seriously corrosive.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have shot many brands of real black powder. It is my personal opinion ( and worth what you paid for it) that the cleanest burning with out question is Swiss, followed by KiK (no longer made), Goex Old Enford, regular Goex (soon to be made again), Schultzun also sold under Gaff's house brand, And the really bad old elephant powder made in Brazil. Now being sold under a different name .I would not worry about any true black except for the elephant which you probably can't get anyhow.

 

[ernbar]

Also true of smokeless power

I have never heard that smokeless powder is corrosive unless used in the older surplus ammo using corrosive berdan primers.