what is the correct projectile size for a .36 cal colt 1851?

[el_pepou]

Hey,
I recently got my hands on a modern copy of a colt 1851 in cal .36, I read that many people use slightly oversized lead balls in cal .362 or so. But I wonder if you can shoot with slightly undersized balls and a "sort of cloth wrapped around it" (there's a specific word in french for that piece of cloth (wich is not the wad), but I cant seem to find any translation...)
I thought maybe this would cause less friction and so> less wear on the cannon + less energy loss. my powder is not very powerful, it still shoots, its deafening and definitely deadly but not as good as "proper" powder. I made my own black powder from scratch and wild materials because where I am it is not available in most gunshops and you need hunting license and ID and medical test from less than two weeks ago to order it online PLUS its expensive as hell...

 

[Phil Coffins]

Your revolver will need .375” to .380” ball (I don’t have a good grasp on metric) and using a cloth patch will not work.

 

[wiscoaster]

I've got 0.375 round ball logged as the standard ball size for my Uberti repro, but this is something you need to gauge with your own gun. If you shave a 100% concentric ring of lead upon loading it's the right size. If it gets stuck loading it then it's too big. Don't try using an undersized ball with a patch, that may be asking for a chain fire, and won't provide the gas seal these chambers are intended for, and regardless of chain fire your shooting results will be inferior. Don't worry about the friction; it's not a factor, and indeed a certain amount of friction is necessary to build up the proper gas pressure behind the projectile.

 

[tjiann]

.380 will get you a nice shaved lead ring.

 

[el_pepou]

thanks to all of you who anwsered me! Ill get oversized lead balls then.
About chain fire I haven't had one for the moment, even though I fired a few shots already (not a lot, around 40 maybe). I assume this is because I made sulfur-less powder wich is more stable and less reactive

 

[wiscoaster]

..... I assume this is because I made sulfur-less powder wich is more stable and less reactive

No, it's not that shooting undersized balls guarantees a chain fire, it's that it increases the probability of a chain fire, which is pretty low to begin with. I don't know for a fact, but my guess would be that powder doesn't make any difference. I may be wrong.

 

[nkbj]

Hey,
I recently got my hands on a modern copy of a colt 1851 in cal .36, I read that many people use slightly oversized lead balls in cal .362 or so. But I wonder if you can shoot with slightly undersized balls and a "sort of cloth wrapped around it" (there's a specific word in french for that piece of cloth (wich is not the wad), but I cant seem to find any translation...)
I thought maybe this would cause less friction and so> less wear on the cannon + less energy loss. my powder is not very powerful, it still shoots, its deafening and definitely deadly but not as good as "proper" powder. I made my own black powder from scratch and wild materials because where I am it is not available in most gunshops and you need hunting license and ID and medical test from less than two weeks ago to order it online PLUS its expensive as hell...

Welcome sir to the forum.
As someone said before, .375"-.380" diameter balls should work in a replica 1851.

 

[maillemaker]

This fellow shows pretty conclusively how undersize balls can cause chain fires:



It's important when loading a percussion revolver that the bullets be slightly oversize to the chambers. Usually a small ring of lead will be shaved on loading, but sometimes, especially if the chambers have been chamfered, the ball will be swaged into the chamber and not cut a ring. Either way, you want a tight fit in the chamber to seal it from the side blast generated during firing.

 

[M. De Land]

Hey,
I recently got my hands on a modern copy of a colt 1851 in cal .36, I read that many people use slightly oversized lead balls in cal .362 or so. But I wonder if you can shoot with slightly undersized balls and a "sort of cloth wrapped around it" (there's a specific word in french for that piece of cloth (wich is not the wad), but I cant seem to find any translation...)
I thought maybe this would cause less friction and so> less wear on the cannon + less energy loss. my powder is not very powerful, it still shoots, its deafening and definitely deadly but not as good as "proper" powder. I made my own black powder from scratch and wild materials because where I am it is not available in most gunshops and you need hunting license and ID and medical test from less than two weeks ago to order it online PLUS its expensive as hell...

Well, that depends on wither or not your chambers have been opened to bore groove depth. Ideally the chamber mouths should be of at least groove diameter and not more than .001 over.
Chamber mouths from the factory are very often not totally round or even of the same diameters. A set of plug gauges is very useful in determining this and best of all for accuracy is slugging each chamber mouth with a lead slug and cross mic'ing them.

 

[nkbj]

Another item, pay attention to the factory deburring of the chamber mouths. Sometimes the pressure applied to a tool can push the metal rather than cleanly cut with the result that you get a tiny lip at the mouth of your chambers, such that the bullets pass through an undesirable restriction on the way into the chambers.

 

[M. De Land]

Another item, pay attention to the factory deburring of the chamber mouths. Sometimes the pressure applied to a tool can push the metal rather than cleanly cut with the result that you get a tiny lip at the mouth of your chambers, such that the bullets pass through an undesirable restriction on the way into the chambers.

Now there is a possibility I have never noticed or found before worth checking out more closely .

 

[M. De Land]

Hey,
I recently got my hands on a modern copy of a colt 1851 in cal .36, I read that many people use slightly oversized lead balls in cal .362 or so. But I wonder if you can shoot with slightly undersized balls and a "sort of cloth wrapped around it" (there's a specific word in french for that piece of cloth (wich is not the wad), but I cant seem to find any translation...)
I thought maybe this would cause less friction and so> less wear on the cannon + less energy loss. my powder is not very powerful, it still shoots, its deafening and definitely deadly but not as good as "proper" powder. I made my own black powder from scratch and wild materials because where I am it is not available in most gunshops and you need hunting license and ID and medical test from less than two weeks ago to order it online PLUS its expensive as hell...

For some reason I was thinking that you were asking the weight of conicals used in the 51's and had no idea of what it would be. So now I'm curious as to the typical weight of a 36 conical bullet. The balls weigh about 85 grains if memory serves.

 

[nkbj]

Anybody know what weight the original Colt molds produced?

Eh, but then again surely there were several weights of .36 caliber bullets in use during our own 1860's war.

 

[rodwha]

Anybody know what weight the original Colt molds produced?

Eh, but then again surely there were several weights of .36 caliber bullets in use during our own 1860's war.

 

[rodwha]

View attachment 348608

What was quite interesting is that the Hazard’s paper cartridges tested were found to contain 4F powder and was new and called their Pistol Powder with the .44 cal version tested, and it was claimed to be as energetic as Swiss powder.

 

[Gtrubicon]

What was quite interesting is that the Hazard’s paper cartridges tested were found to contain 4F powder and was new and called their Pistol Powder with the .44 cal version tested, and it was claimed to be as energetic as Swiss powder.

My next shoot will be using 4f in my Uberti 58.

 

[rodwha]

My next shoot will be using 4f in my Uberti 58.

Well, I’d be curious to know your results. I’ve only really read about 4F use in Rugers and it doesn’t seem like it’s as accurate.

 

[Erwan]

in most gunshops and you need hunting license and ID and medical test from less than two weeks ago to order it online PLUS its expensive as hell

Hi,
Are you sure that what you're saying now?
In your country only an ID card is needed to be sure that you are more than 18 years old, sometimes a shooting license is also required...
U can always get the right powder HERE ...
The current load for the beginning is around 15 grains of PNF2 (3Fg), don't put any patch ("calepin" for you) in a revolver...

 

[el_pepou]

Hi,
Are you sure that what you're saying now?
In your country only an ID card is needed to be sure that you are more than 18 years old, sometimes a shooting license is also required...
U can always get the right powder HERE ...
The current load for the beginning is around 15 grains of PNF2 (3Fg), don't put any patch ("calepin" for you) in a revolver...

thank you for your response,
apperently some french websites always ask for a medical certificate and some do not, the ole you sent me does not ask for it indeed, thanks

I ordered some .380 balls at a local gunshop as advised by the others, and I won't put a patch then, thanks for the info

 

[bpalbee]

Hey,
I recently got my hands on a modern copy of a colt 1851 in cal .36, I read that many people use slightly oversized lead balls in cal .362 or so. But I wonder if you can shoot with slightly undersized balls and a "sort of cloth wrapped around it" (there's a specific word in french for that piece of cloth (wich is not the wad), but I cant seem to find any translation...)
I thought maybe this would cause less friction and so> less wear on the cannon + less energy loss. my powder is not very powerful, it still shoots, its deafening and definitely deadly but not as good as "proper" powder. I made my own black powder from scratch and wild materials because where I am it is not available in most gunshops and you need hunting license and ID and medical test from less than two weeks ago to order it online PLUS its expensive as hell...

If you can get your hands on a .375" or .380" mold you will be fine. I have both sizes, Lyman cast iron molds and they both measure out at .378" as cast, pure lead. I'd stay away from wheel weights, you want pure lead.