What Is The Fix?

[Zulch]

I seriously doubt that’s the reason Uberti hasn’t addressed the “problem”. If it were, there’s not a manufacturer on earth that could escape liability and… Pietta would have had to ”fix” every revolver they’ve build since the 60’s.

BadKarma, do you have any thoughts on why Uberti doesn’t address this “problem”?

 

[Bad Karma]

BadKarma, do you have any thoughts on why Uberti doesn’t address this “problem”?

I would think it’s because they don’t believe it’s a problem. Pistols aren’t returned because the arbors are short and Uberti aren’t seeing any problems associated with that condition.

 

[CaptainKirk]

I would think it’s because they don’t believe it’s a problem. Pistols aren’t returned because the arbors are short and Uberti aren’t seeing any problems associated with that condition.

They can't be that much out of touch with reality. They have salesmen and company reps that are certainly aware of the problem. It's not like it's a new thing.

 

[French Colonial]

What's harder fixing an arbor on a Uberti if it needs it (mine doesn't) or removing the two paragraphs of writing on the side of the barrel of a Pietta.

Personally, I find all the verbiage on BP guns, rifles or pistols, jarring and out of place.

 

[45D]

What's harder fixing an arbor on a Uberti if it needs it (mine doesn't) or removing the two paragraphs of writing on the side of the barrel of a Pietta.

Personally, I find all the verbiage on BP guns, rifles or pistols, jarring and out of place.

So you bought yours already fixed (used) or how did you fix yours? How about a picture? The best thing about these forums is education. If you bought it new, you're just not driving the wedge in far enough. Most Uberti's will lock up the cylinder or have rotational interference (because of runout). I have had a 2nd gen Colt not lock up in this condition but that is fairly rare (the arbor was still rather short). I will say that after hundreds of Uberti open tops through the shop, not one of them had a correct arbor . . . nor any Colt 2nd gen or Sig series, or any other make that has manufactured an open top Colt platform revolver. It's just what happens when attention to detail isn't top priority or "close" is good enough.

Mike

 

[French Colonial]

So you bought yours already fixed (used) or how did you fix yours? How about a picture? The best thing about these forums is education. If you bought it new, you're just not driving the wedge in far enough. Most Uberti's will lock up the cylinder or have rotational interference (because of runout). I have had a 2nd gen Colt not lock up in this condition but that is fairly rare (the arbor was still rather short). I will say that after hundreds of Uberti open tops through the shop, not one of them had a correct arbor . . . nor any Colt 2nd gen or Sig series, or any other make that has manufactured an open top Colt platform revolver. It's just what happens when attention to detail isn't top priority or "close" is good enough.

Mike

I have to admit I am one of the luckiest guys on the planet when it comes to firearms, I bought a new Uberti 1851 Navy from DGW last summer and they shipped it direct to my house (which on another thread they say can't be done without an FFL) and the first few times I took it apart I had to use a plastic mallet to drive the wedge in and out. Trust me when I say the wedge is ALL the way in.

I should probably measure the cylinder gap because it's very small but have never had a problem with cylinder rotation, so it wasn't a concern.

It shoots pretty good at 25 yards with BP a greased wad and then a round ball, I tried some conical bullets rolled in cartridges and was unimpressed. Those primitive sights and these old eyes did OK but my match winning days are pretty much behind me unless I get some surgery.

Maybe the new Uberti's are better or maybe I just got lucky, but I like it just the way it is so I am not going to mess with success.

On a side note, I have been pretty impressed with Uberti, Years ago when the BPCRS craze first started I bought a Uberti high wall 40-65 as a cheap intro rifle to test the water to see if I was really interested in the sport or not and within a few months I was out shooting Shiloh Sharps and Browning high walls, now that has got more to do with the guys shooting them than the rifles but still the Uberti did everything you could ask of it.

I am primarily a 1740's HC/PC flintlock shooter and only bought the pistol because that's what my Great Grandfather carried as a member of the Ohio first volunteer cavalry so it probably will never get shot enough to ever wear out or get loose or whatever else happens to open tops. If I would ever get serious about revolvers I would get another Remington, gave the last one I had to my brother.

 

[45D]

Ok, well it has nothing to do with "luck", the end of the arbor will leave a witness mark on the bottom of the arbor hole. After I do the correction, there is a witness mark as well.
The only open top revolvers that were correct from the factory (not including late Piettas) that I have ever worked on were 3 original 1st gen Colts (after all, it was Colts design!) and that includes 2021 examples as well. I'm positive if you were little more into an actual diagnosis, you'd find that yours is indeed short. But hey, if your happy with what you have, by all means enjoy.

Mike

 

[Old Hawkeye]

So you bought yours already fixed (used) or how did you fix yours? How about a picture? The best thing about these forums is education. If you bought it new, you're just not driving the wedge in far enough. Most Uberti's will lock up the cylinder or have rotational interference (because of runout). I have had a 2nd gen Colt not lock up in this condition but that is fairly rare (the arbor was still rather short). I will say that after hundreds of Uberti open tops through the shop, not one of them had a correct arbor . . . nor any Colt 2nd gen or Sig series, or any other make that has manufactured an open top Colt platform revolver. It's just what happens when attention to detail isn't top priority or "close" is good enough.

Mike

Why do you insist that no one can have a Uberti that doesn't have a short arbor? Did your psychic powers enable you to know that French Colonial is
"just not driving the wedge in far enough" & allow you to see into the bottom of the arbor hole on his revolver? I bought mine new about 8 or 10 years ago & it's arbor fits perfectly. Believe it or not, other people do actually know how to check for a short arbor. This ain't rocket surgery. To say "most Uberti's will lock up the cylinder" based on the small sample of guns sent to you for repair or modification is ignoring the millions that you have never seen & possibly influenced your perceptions. The sky is not falling! You should be happy there are short arbor guns, as it seems to have created a lot of business for you. Maybe a thank you to Uberti would be more appropriate. Just sayin'.

 

[45D]

Why do you insist that no one can have a Uberti that doesn't have a short arbor? Did your psychic powers enable you to know that French Colonial is
"just not driving the wedge in far enough" & allow you to see into the bottom of the arbor hole on his revolver? I bought mine new about 8 or 10 years ago & it's arbor fits perfectly. Believe it or not, other people do actually know how to check for a short arbor. This ain't rocket surgery. To say "most Uberti's will lock up the cylinder" based on the small sample of guns sent to you for repair or modification is ignoring the millions that you have never seen & possibly influenced your perceptions. The sky is not falling! You should be happy there are short arbor guns, as it seems to have created a lot of business for you. Maybe a thank you to Uberti would be more appropriate. Just sayin'.

Honestly, it would be a blessing if Uberti would follow suit with Pietta. A correct length arbor is key for the open top design but it is just one of many things a tuner does for a revolver so, sorry to bust your bubble. The "small sample" that I have had the honor to work on is just part of the hundreds that have been posted about across all the bp forums for years and years so . . . it's a pretty good size sample. I doubt they just send the short ones to the U.S. You forgot about the continuation of the Colt open tops known as the 2 nd gens., they're all short too . . . and they will Letter from Colt!!!! Yikes!!! Besides, I'll bet you that the sample I've seen is definitely greater than the sample you've owned!!

Therefore, you don't have to have "psychic powers" to understand that if it's an Uberti (or any other make from the past including all older Piettas) that it will have a short arbor . . . you're right, it's not "rocket surgery" or even "brain science"!! Lol. Lots of folks have new revolvers sent directly to me to tune before they get them (because they understand the arbor is short , and they have been right . . . every single time).

So, to answer your question, the reason I " insist" is simply because I've never seen one that wasn't !!!
Guess what color a red Ferrari is?

Mike

 

[French Colonial]

I would like to see a photo of a witness mark, I do not see one on my Uberti, but then again I do not know what I am looking for.

 

[45D]

I'll post a pic for you. I don't have one one in my phone anymore (new phone this summer and not all pics transferred yet) so, I'll get a new correction photo.

You can see the ring on the spacer in the arbor hole (top pic.) a a corresponding ring on the end of the arbor ( second pic.)

Mike

 

[hawkeye2]

Why do you insist that no one can have a Uberti that doesn't have a short arbor? Did your psychic powers enable you to know that French Colonial is
"just not driving the wedge in far enough" & allow you to see into the bottom of the arbor hole on his revolver? I bought mine new about 8 or 10 years ago & it's arbor fits perfectly. Believe it or not, other people do actually know how to check for a short arbor. This ain't rocket surgery. To say "most Uberti's will lock up the cylinder" based on the small sample of guns sent to you for repair or modification is ignoring the millions that you have never seen & possibly influenced your perceptions. The sky is not falling! You should be happy there are short arbor guns, as it seems to have created a lot of business for you. Maybe a thank you to Uberti would be more appropriate. Just sayin'.

Mike has probably tuned more open tops than most of us have seen in person. He has done several for me and they perform flawlessly. I would never have believed it is possible to make an Italian revolver run as well as these do. I was so impressed that I sent him my Holy Grail of revolvers, a Tom Ball built Rogers & Spencer which was my main match gun, for a rework. The quality and quantity of work he has done qualifies him to make the statements he has (my opinion) and the numerous phone conversations we have had reinforces that opinion. When he finishes the one of mine he has now there will be more going his way.

Luigi is only human and it's possible he was having a bad day or was distracted and let a revolver slip by with a correct length arbor but most of the time he is on top of things and that's a rare occurrence. My first C&B revolver over 50 years ago was a $30 new brass frame Navy, A friend slicked it up and we burned a lot of powder that summer with it. I was kinda green as far as C&B revolvers go and never realized there was an arbor issue but that didn't stop us from having a lot of fun and it hooked me on them forever.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

My first C&B revolver over 50 years ago was a $30 new brass frame Navy, A friend slicked it up and we burned a lot of powder that summer with it. I was kinda green as far as C&B revolvers go and never realized there was an arbor issue but that didn't stop us from having a lot of fun and it hooked me on them forever.

My whole point! We don't need to be lectured by 45D & told we are all wrong & stupid for shooting & having fun without worrying about the short arbor thing. It's not the end of the world if someone shoots a revolver with a short arbor & no one is going to get killed. Is it a requirement for membership here that you "fix" your short arbor? Why does it matter so much? Can't others also shoot & have fun like you did? Glad you are happy with the work done on your revolvers, but does that mean we all have to follow suit? I am not denying there are short arbors or refuting anything said about them. I'm just saying let people have fun & do what they want to do without trying to make them feel like they must comply to someone else's criteria. To get more people into the hobby it needs to be a bigger tent, not a small tent full of elitists. Think back. If you had read this thread and the comments made by 45D before you bought that Navy, would you have even bothered?

 

[45D]

My whole point! We don't need to be lectured by 45D & told we are all wrong & stupid for shooting & having fun without worrying about the short arbor thing. It's not the end of the world if someone shoots a revolver with a short arbor & no one is going to get killed. Is it a requirement for membership here that you "fix" your short arbor? Why does it matter so much? Can't others also shoot & have fun like you did? Glad you are happy with the work done on your revolvers, but does that mean we all have to follow suit? I am not denying there are short arbors or refuting anything said about them. I'm just saying let people have fun & do what they want to do without trying to make them feel like they must comply to someone else's criteria. To get more people into the hobby it needs to be a bigger tent, not a small tent full of elitists. Think back. If you had read this thread and the comments made by 45D before you bought that Navy, would you have even bothered?

Brother. you are on fire!! Lol!

The op asked a question about what happens when the arbor is short. Zulch gave an honest answer and I followed with an answer. So, the topic IS about the short arbors.
Then you decided "it's overblown " but is an easy fix of a "minor problem ". The op apparently thinks it's serious enough to ask about so, he gets the attention, not you.

You say your example has a correct arbor and wonderful timing right out of the box. I don't doubt that you may think so but I've never seen one new or used that IS correct. So, I doubt your testing method. You didn't respond with any constructive info of how you know yours is correct ( so we all might learn something), but rather you proceeded down the " no big deal" thing so . . .
When I was a heavy casual shooter ( long before I knew anything about what I do today) my Walkers & Dragoons would go through wedges like candy!!! It bothered me but I was having fun ( just like I told French Colonial in post #47 above). Fast forward 25 years and it all made sense. My revolvers shoot smokeless cartridges ( which is much harder on them than bp) and haven't had to replace any wedges at all ( I think there's something to the arbor fit thing!!!).
You ask " what's the big deal?" well, the op asked the question and some of us are trying to help him rather than saying "it's no big deal".

My question directed at French Colonial, again about enlightening us about his correct example. I asked about a pic. He responded with how about me posting a pic of what I was talking about. So, I did.

Thanks to Hawkeye2 for his very kind words.

And . . . all this just because someone smart enough to ask a question about a known manufacturing defect . . . did so and got answers.

Mike

 

[CaptainKirk]

My whole point! We don't need to be lectured by 45D & told we are all wrong & stupid for shooting & having fun without worrying about the short arbor thing. It's not the end of the world if someone shoots a revolver with a short arbor & no one is going to get killed. Is it a requirement for membership here that you "fix" your short arbor? Why does it matter so much? Can't others also shoot & have fun like you did? Glad you are happy with the work done on your revolvers, but does that mean we all have to follow suit? I am not denying there are short arbors or refuting anything said about them. I'm just saying let people have fun & do what they want to do without trying to make them feel like they must comply to someone else's criteria. To get more people into the hobby it needs to be a bigger tent, not a small tent full of elitists. Think back. If you had read this thread and the comments made by 45D before you bought that Navy, would you have even bothered?

OH, you are missing the point entirely. Nobody said it was a requirement to address the "short arbor" issue. Nobody said your gun will self destruct if you don't fix it. Steel framed percussion revolvers are pretty resilient and the average shooter probably shoots it once or twice a season, less even, if they have a number of them. What WAS said is that most newcomers to BP revolvers have absolutely no idea what a short arbor is, how to fix it, and what effect it will have on your shooting...namely, in addition to beating up your frame over time with heavy usage, it does not allow your barrel and frame to function as a solid unit, causing misalignment and variances in harmonic frequency (which was borne out in the development of the Winchester/Browning B.O.S.S. system in the 1990s). Yes, we are are only talking about percussion revolvers; true. However, even a percussion revolver with all it's faults can shoot horrible, or be a tack driver, which can make all the difference to newcomers to the sport. What Mike is discussing is not a "requirement", but rather a service improvement,
much in the same way his tuning jobs affect a revolver. I have 3 of his guns so far and wouldn't sell any of them for 5X what they are worth. You have to feel the difference to believe it, phrases like "buttery action" don't do justice.
Bottom line; if you are happy with your Uberti, by all means don't do anything with it or feel that you need to. But don't announce that short arbor is really "not a thing" or an old wives' tale. It's not; it's real and I have all the proof I need.

 

[hawkeye2]

"Think back. If you had read this thread and the comments made by 45D before you bought that Navy, would you have even bothered?" (Old Hawkeye)

I said I was kinda green when it came to C&B revolvers but I wasn't green to revolvers. By the time I got the Navy I'd had considerable experience with a pre war Colt Officer's Match in .38 and a S&W model 57 .41 mag that I loaded for and took hunting and I'd shot a number of revolvers that were much lower on the scale. Those guns were top of the line back then and I bought the Navy knowing that there would be no comparison. I wasn't disappointed there. With a little tuning it did what it was supposed to do reliably which was to make smoke and noise, punch holes in paper and provide us with an afternoon of fun. Would I have bought it after reading 45D's comments, H#** yeah! I've moved on to a lot better revolvers since then but if I still had it I wouldn't hesitate taking it out for an afternoon of fun.

Not everyone needs a supertuned revolver or an 800hp Studebaker coupe but they do give a lot of satisfaction. I've had a lot of fun with a 36 Chevy field car and a nickel plated half worn out H&R .22. You just put a smile on your face and adjust your expectations and attitude before you walk out the door. No, I wouldn't have been scared away by 45D's comments, only forewarned.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Anybody received a reply from Uberti yet?

 

[45D]

Anybody received a reply from Uberti yet?

Thought you were doing that!! Lol You're just gonna have to stay with "conjecture". Even though it would be nice if they corrected it, the price increase (especially at this time) would possibly be detrimental to the company. Pietta just makes different barrels / lengths for the common frame. Uberti is the only company that makes more or less correct models on correct scales. It would be a shame for them to become another Pietta. Bottom line, fitting takes time and it costs more than its worth ( apparently) for an already more expensive product. Besides, our market isn't nearly as big as the " rest of world" market.

Mike

 

[Zapadach]

Is this Arbor day ? I thought Arbor day was in April or may.

 

[45D]

Shoot!! Arbor day is just about every day around here (thank goodness for Remingtons and ROA's!!) !!

Mike