What is this called?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I would not call it junk if I could not find caps to shoot my gun with
Just seeing the other side of the equation here is all :cool:
Can't argue that. But, otherwise, I see it as a non-traditional gimmick to try to make an ml rifle into something more like a modern unmentionable. My answer to flint unavailability is to shoot flint. Really, is there anything else? 😉
 
As has been stated, it is a primer adapter for a percussion firearm. Thank you to the two brothers who pointed out that these were mentioned in Ned Roberts' book, The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle. This book was first published before World War II, so the idea is not new. Primer adapters are probably older than a lot of the mass-produced "traditional" rifle designs people are shooting now.

I am not trying to sell anybody on primer adapters. Percussion caps will remain my first "go to" as an ignition source for percussion guns. I think percussion caps are probably more practical... You just push one onto the nipple. With the primer adapters, you are not only handling a tiny little primer, but you are also manipulating a separate cap that houses the firing pin, and has to be screwed off and back on for every shot. This equates to extra steps in loading and extra parts to lose. With the adapters that use rifle/pistol primers, I have wondered if it might be possible to put the primer in upside down. That would not happen with a percussion cap.

However, it is good to know what your options are, so those options can be utilized in times of shortage. If you can't get caps but can get primers, an adapter can keep you shooting. As for the flintlock versus percussion angle, I own and enjoy shooting both. It's not really an either/or proposition.

A lot of people will tell you that you can pick up a rock and put it in your flinter and keep shooting. I wonder how many have actually done this. In the old days, traders sold an awful lot of flints to their Indian customers, who were the original American flint knappers and evidently felt that a half dozen flints were worth a deerskin. There have been debates about bevel up or bevel down, or French versus black English flints, and articles have been written about how to select flints for your gun. I just don't subscribe to the "any old rock" theory.

I understand that some primers may be hotter than percussion caps, which suggests that if you have to shoot black powder substitutes, you may have fewer hangfires and failures to fire with primers. Some have suggested that primers are more consistent than caps, and for precision target shooters, this may be something to consider.

I have a relatively new custom rifle, a beautiful Hawken, that blew the hammer back to full cock every time it was fired. The nipple was new, with a small flash hole, and the mainspring is good and strong. There is no reasonable explanation for this blowback. I changed the #11 nipple out for an old one sized for #12 caps (I have stash of these, both nipples and caps), and enjoyed positive ignition and no blowback, but had to use needle-nose pliers to get the spent cap off the nipple, which was a pain. My Alcan #12 caps are around 60 years old. Old caps were made with thicker, stronger walls than the new ones, and they stay on the nipple very well, but this can also make them harder to remove after the shot.

Anyway, I bought a Mag-Spark 209 adapter for this rifle but haven't had a chance to try it yet. One of the hold-ups was that 209 primers were unavailable, and I've discovered that not all of the 209's out there will fit the Mag-Spark. I joined the Modern Muzzleloadfing Forum (under a different alias) specifically to ask about this. One fellow posted results of pretty extensive measurement and testing, and found that some of the more widely available 209 primers just would not work at all, and even some of the better known, name brand primers didn't all fit. The consensus was that Federal 209 primers were the most consistent fit, and I finally found some of these. Still haven't had a chance to try the adapter or primers, but I will. I also fully expect to lose the adapter's cap, so I ordered a spare.

In any event, primer adapters for percussion guns have a place in the traditional muzzleloading world, and I would not put anybody down for trying one. If you get one, it would probably be a good idea to try your primers in the adapter before you go to the range, to make sure they will fit, and separate the ones that won't fit from the ones that will.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
These were all the rage back in the 70s; they worked well, FOR ONE SHOT, then you got out your pocket knife and tried your best to dig out the now expanded 209 primer out of the device. I had one, we all had one but quickly abandoned them for hunting because if a second shot was possible, the whole loading sequence might take 3 or 4 minutes, most of that digging the spent 209 primer out.
 
I switched to musket caps for my two percussion rifles, so I had a good alternative for # 11s. Now with continuing shortage, I will probably look into one of the centerfire primer adapters to ensure I can keep shooting...even if they are not the greatest thing in the world.
Yep...I do shoot flintlock also, and enjoy it. I still like my percussions though.
 
The first of these offered in the 70's were just protectors for the percussion cap. Then they morphed into using standard primers. (Accra Shot). The latest iteration uses 209 primers (Mag Spark). Options are always good in times of scarcity. I have standard and musket cap nipples for all the muzzleloaders I have that will take the musket cap nipple.

ADK Bigfoot
 
Can't argue that. But, otherwise, I see it as a non-traditional gimmick to try to make an ml rifle into something more like a modern unmentionable. My answer to flint unavailability is to shoot flint. Really, is there anything else? 😉
Half the world is made of flint and rocks that spark.
 
Not wasting my c-fire primers with that thing. I got the cap maker cause I'm not spending 12 or 13 $ a hundred for percussion caps. The panic demic has told us a lot about who our friends are!
 
This was posted by @Stantheman86 on page 16 of that 17-page Pyrodex thread:

View attachment 186167

The 209 adapters get very little love, but they have been around since the Original Period like shown on this 1860's era Target muzzleloading rifle. This rifle was made new to take shotgun primers.

Shooters recognized the hotter flame of a shotgun primer was good for target shooting and shotgun primers were easy to find by the mid-late 1860's.

I don't know where the picture is from. Maybe Stan will tell us where he found it.

I have not found a date for the introduction of 209 primers, but Berdan primers were patented in 1866. I don't know exactly when Boxer primers came out, but it was about the same time as the Berdans. There were still plenty of people shooting muzzleloaders in the late 1860's, and while I believe the rifle shown in this illustration is unusual, it does show that at least someone thought of using centerfire primers with muzzleloaders quite a while ago.

Thanks to Stantheman86 for posting the original image!

Notchy Bob

EDIT: Looks like the picture might not have carried over with the quoted text. Here is the image that Stan posted:

2023-06-11 (1).png
 
Seen them before but never could see the use for them. I couldn't imagine how much of a hassle it would be to unscrew the cap, put in a primer and screw the cap back on. Shoot then repeat. Seems like more of a PITA than just using a #11 cap
 
This was posted by @Stantheman86 on page 16 of that 17-page Pyrodex thread:



I don't know where the picture is from. Maybe Stan will tell us where he found it.

I have not found a date for the introduction of 209 primers, but Berdan primers were patented in 1866. I don't know exactly when Boxer primers came out, but it was about the same time as the Berdans. There were still plenty of people shooting muzzleloaders in the late 1860's, and while I believe the rifle shown in this illustration is unusual, it does show that at least someone thought of using centerfire primers with muzzleloaders quite a while ago.

Thanks to Stantheman86 for posting the original image!

Notchy Bob

EDIT: Looks like the picture might not have carried over with the quoted text. Here is the image that Stan posted:

View attachment 227683
The picture is from Ned Roberts' book The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle. The device using a shotgun primer was invented by Horace Warner in the 1880's.

The heavy American made muzzleloading bench rifles of that time were the most accurate rifles in the world. Not all used a primer though: some still used a cap.
 
Back
Top