What lock would you use for a custom build

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Here's a kit that is sort of in the direction you're talking about. This is more of a Tennessee Mountain style stock.

http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k-47/
I also really like the idea of a flintlock half-stock Hawken rifle. I don't know if I like it so much that I'll build or buy one myself, but you never know..... I have no need to satisfy anyone else's ideas about historical correctness. But since there don't seem to be any examples of original half-stock Hawken flinters, I don't know that there are any lock makers who make a lock for such a rifle. So, you'll have to either go with something similar or have a lock plate and rifle customized.
 
L&R or Chambers. Either, expect to do some filing, stoning and tinkering to get best performance.
Ok gentlemen I started this thread to ask about locks and what I am looking for I realize that Hawken rifles are historically percussion guns.
I live in PA and have a flintlock only season. I realize what I am looking for is probably only going to Happen if I build it or have one built. Maybe I should of said I want a 1792 contract rifle with a half stock and 28 inch barrel. Plus I want it in 54 Cal.
Then look for a 1803 Harpers Ferry
I think it’s a 33”
Now if’n you don’t want a military style, English half stock flintlock hunting rifles are well known
Then if you want simi historical one can have the dreaded canoe gun in full stock. There is no rib to worry about.
Note New England half stocks are known with wood ribs
You can have flintlock half stock Hawken style
All and all you would be hard pressed to get a better simi traditional gun then the flintlock Great Plains rifle
 
Here's a kit that is sort of in the direction you're talking about. This is more of a Tennessee Mountain style stock.

http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k-47/
I also really like the idea of a flintlock half-stock Hawken rifle. I don't know if I like it so much that I'll build or buy one myself, but you never know..... I have no need to satisfy anyone else's ideas about historical correctness. But since there don't seem to be any examples of original half-stock Hawken flinters, I don't know that there are any lock makers who make a lock for such a rifle. So, you'll have to either go with something similar or have a lock plate and rifle customized.
Most makers offer a pre cut for a brand of lock. LandR or Siler styles have the same lock plate in flint of percussion
 
If you are going to do a build from a blank why not just design something that looks good to you? There's really no need to try to copy what's in fashion. I'd bet that there were many thousands of flintlocks built in the old days that didn't follow any particular style.
 
Build an 1803 harpers ferry from the Rifle shoppe. It’s a 54 half stock that actually existed and much lighter and in my opinion a much better looking and handling rifle than any hawkenish rifle. Forget about the 50 caliber because it serves zero purpose when you have a 54. Once you started shooting and hunting with a 54 you will never think about the 50 caliber barrel ever again. Secondly buy a shotgun. As Rich Pierce stated earlier it’s just a hot mess to have three barrels that with fit the same stock/lock configuration. Here is my harpers ferry made from a rifle shoppe kit. Colerain barrel, Davis lock and one nice rifle.
 

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Hi 4119Bill,
Halfstock flintlock rifles are very nice. In your shoes, this is what I would build, a late flint English sporting rifle. I believe the Hawken brothers borrowed a lot from these rifles and the English stocks are the best designs for fit, handling, and ruggedness in a hunting gun.
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The large, flat butt plate is very comfortable even with heavy hunting loads and is far superior to the crescent plates on Hawkens.
Chambers late Ketland and Kibler's late English flintlock would be suitable for this gun. I am no fan of L&R locks unless you like to work them over extensively. The lock on the rifle above is a Davis late flint English lock. As it came, it was awful but I turned it into a superb lock worthy of an English gun. You could also consider Buck Ridge's "Nock" lock, which is a Nock lock in name only but is better than the L&R offerings.

dave
 
Hi,
Unfortunately, having worked over Pedersoli Mortimer locks to make them actually somewhat representative of real British bolted locks, and shooting the Pedersoli Mortimer that my brother used as a member of the International Muzzleloading Team, I can confidently write that they are heavy, unbalanced, and pathetic compared with the English rifle I posted above.

dave
 
I want a hawken half stock flintlock. I want it to a reliable hunting and shooting gun. Thinking I am going to have to build a custom to get what I want.
I actually want it in both 54 and 50 and maybe a smooth bore. My thoughts are build a nice stock and get a good lock. Then have 3 barrels to fit. Am I crazy ?
I originally was looking for a .54 Hawkin style flintlock made by t/c, Lyman, or investarms. Main reason is I want a better lock on it 3/4 vs 5/8 on the traditions.
It seems like there is fewer and fewer flintlock options.
So maybe I should just buy a lock and go from there.
Jim Kibler's SMR lock could work. And it is of the highest quality.
 
Jim Kibler's SMR lock could work. And it is of the highest quality.
Another thing to consider is weight. My half stock Sam Hawken rifle weighs 10 + lbs. whereas my fullstock J&S is well over a pound lighter. And the full stock is carrying 3 inches more barrel.
 
Was thinking one rifle with multiple barrels. Just thoughts
Most of my experience is with caplocks and a caplock does not require as much precision of fitting and tuning to be reliable as does a flint gun. I have lived quite happily for over 50 years with a H&A buggy rlfle lock and TC Hawken lock (both of which I have tweeked a bit) . They have never broken or let me down in any way.
All but one of my flint guns have needed some real work to make them reliable and some of them were high end locks.
 
Hi 4119Bill,
Halfstock flintlock rifles are very nice. In your shoes, this is what I would build, a late flint English sporting rifle. I believe the Hawken brothers borrowed a lot from these rifles and the English stocks are the best designs for fit, handling, and ruggedness in a hunting gun.
MNwjAno.jpg

mAI4vez.jpg

cMQJ3Mh.jpg

YQtpbvE.jpg

2uLC2kj.jpg

xES8ufA.jpg

The large, flat butt plate is very comfortable even with heavy hunting loads and is far superior to the crescent plates on Hawkens.
Chambers late Ketland and Kibler's late English flintlock would be suitable for this gun. I am no fan of L&R locks unless you like to work them over extensively. The lock on the rifle above is a Davis late flint English lock. As it came, it was awful but I turned it into a superb lock worthy of an English gun. You could also consider Buck Ridge's "Nock" lock, which is a Nock lock in name only but is better than the L&R offerings.

dave
Very nice rifle Dave ! One of the best shaped, well laid out guns I have ever seen. That gun would turn heads even without the top grade wood and cbeckering.
The English do like their signature style cheek rests. You'll see them on many of there modern bolt guns along with a very abrievated fore arm splinter.
 
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I want a hawken half stock flintlock. I want it to a reliable hunting and shooting gun. Thinking I am going to have to build a custom to get what I want.
I actually want it in both 54 and 50 and maybe a smooth bore. My thoughts are build a nice stock and get a good lock. Then have 3 barrels to fit. Am I crazy ?
I originally was looking for a .54 Hawkin style flintlock made by t/c, Lyman, or investarms. Main reason is I want a better lock on it 3/4 vs 5/8 on the traditions.
It seems like there is fewer and fewer flintlock options.
So maybe I should just buy a lock and go from there.
One of the main things I look for in a quality lock (percussion or flint) is how well the cock/ hammer bearing fits the plate. This needs to be a snug, no wobble fit or the cock will waller around and get bigger in the hole fast. Flint guns respond favorably or not to this bearing fit instantly as it regulates how squarely and well the flint strikes and shears frizzon steel and produces sparks. In my opinion sloppy cock bearing fit is one of the leading reasons a lock eats flint and will never be a true quality lock until corrected..
Strike geometry is also important but most locks are fair to midland in this respect although I finally had to rebend one in a very good lock after it would not spark for beans and the manufacturer was unable to make it any better after a send back. A heat bend forward just a few degrees corrected it and it still sparks well. Usually a heat bend requires reheat treating the cock arm to get it back to original strength so it's not something to approach without some heat treat experience.
 
I want a hawken half stock flintlock. I want it to a reliable hunting and shooting gun. Thinking I am going to have to build a custom to get what I want.
I actually want it in both 54 and 50 and maybe a smooth bore. My thoughts are build a nice stock and get a good lock. Then have 3 barrels to fit. Am I crazy ?
I originally was looking for a .54 Hawkin style flintlock made by t/c, Lyman, or investarms. Main reason is I want a better lock on it 3/4 vs 5/8 on the traditions.
It seems like there is fewer and fewer flintlock options.
So maybe I should just buy a lock and go from there.
For a Midwestern/Western styled rifle like you're wanting, I've used L&R's "Late English" and "Manton" locks on a lot of guns. It wouldn't really look out of place on that style, a lot of locks were still being imported from Britain during that time, and quite a few Lock Makers in the US were copying their designs/ coming up with similar designs. The water resistant pan is a nice feature, and everything's on rollers and are ghosted (designed to have minimal friction between parts). I personally would opt for the Double-Throated cock on the "Late English", the single is durable enough, but the double just looks sturdy (and it is more durable, realistically).

If it were going to be a larger gun, however, I also like the older Germanic styled locks, like L&R's "classic" or "Queen Anne". If it's a small gun, I personally like to drop down to a pistol lock; something like The Rifle Shoppe's "small 3" flintlock (659)".

On the issue of weight, buy the barrel that is going to work lol; straight barrels are for the birds. My favorite profile for a .50 deer rifle is a tapered oct-hexadecagon barrel that runs from 1" at the breech down to .8" at the muzzle. For a light rifle (and loads), something like a .9" breech tapering down to .75" at the muzzle would be just fine (I would say that could hold 70gr of 3F powder and a 250gr bullet just fine, obviously, proof it first). For a 20 bore shot barrel (meant to shoot shotgun/Paradox gun equivalent loadings (7/8oz payload, 75gr charge of 2F or coarser), you should be able to get away with a 1" breech, tapering down to .8" if you want to install chokes, or .7" if you don't. For .54... well, I'd skip .54, can't do anything with bullets a .50 can't do, and doesn't do what a .58 can do with a ball as good, for almost the same cost. In a .58 rifle, I'd go with a 1-1/8" (1.125") to .9" barrel and a 1:70 twist (if it's going to be an express rifle), that should let you shoot a conventional ball or bullet like an Accurate Molds 58-330B at around 1600fps well, and a Pritchett or Burton style bullet well at 1300 (after all, the 1853 Enfield had a slower twist than that). A light rifle in .58 could get away with a 1" barrel, tapering down to .85", and you may want to speed the twist up a little to accommodate the lighter 70 grain or less loadings.

Build the gun around the lock and barrel you want, trying to force parts to fit is never going to go well in the long term. Modest wood and fittings are cheap, buy a good lock, buy your barrels, and make a stock for each barrel, fitting the same lock to work in each one, that's what I would do, if it were me. Like Rich said, trying to make all those barrels fit the same stock exactly the same is going to be a massive pain, and if your stock gets damaged, then you are out the 3 or however many guns you have barrels for. The lock is less likely to get damaged, and having interchangeable locks would be nice if you were able to buy another of the same lock down the road.
 
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I want a hawken half stock flintlock. I want it to a reliable hunting and shooting gun. Thinking I am going to have to build a custom to get what I want.
I actually want it in both 54 and 50 and maybe a smooth bore. My thoughts are build a nice stock and get a good lock. Then have 3 barrels to fit. Am I crazy ?
I originally was looking for a .54 Hawkin style flintlock made by t/c, Lyman, or investarms. Main reason is I want a better lock on it 3/4 vs 5/8 on the traditions.
It seems like there is fewer and fewer flintlock options.
So maybe I should just buy a lock and go from there.
One more important feature I look for in a good lock is double bridle construction. One on the frizzen and the other on the tumbler. Both of these bearing areas are strengthened and align supported by bridle application.
 
In Colorado if you want to hunt elk with a round ball you have to use a 54 or bigger.
That's the difference between a 50 and a 54.
Not my rule I've killed elk with a 50 cal round ball but I do like my 54 cal
 

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