What rifle for war of 1812

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Md80runway23

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Messages
118
Reaction score
96
I would like your thoughts on what might be a good rifle for a militia man in the south during the war of 1812 or creek war? I’m talking a southern Militia, much like would have been seen among Jackson’s troops. Would the Kibler Colonial suffice? Thanks
 
The Kibler Colonial would absolutely suffice and could even be a great choice! By the time of the War of 1812 and the Creek War, southern militia troops would have been carrying a mix of firearms. Many still relied on personal long rifles, often of the Southern or Pennsylvania style, while others might have used muskets like the 1795 Springfield or British Brown Bess if they were supplied by the government or acquired through trade.

For a militia man from the South, a long rifle would make sense, as they often prized accuracy for hunting and skirmishing. The Kibler Colonial, with its lines and proportions, fits right into the period and region, especially if you configure it with simpler furnishings to reflect the practicality of a militia rifle. If you’re aiming for historical accuracy, you might want to consider how it would be carried—perhaps adding a bayonet lug or sling hardware if it was meant to double as a military piece.

It’s a great rifle that represents the craftsmanship and utility you’d expect from that time.
 
I would like your thoughts on what might be a good rifle for a militia man in the south during the war of 1812 or creek war? I’m talking a southern Militia, much like would have been seen among Jackson’s troops. Would the Kibler Colonial suffice? Thanks
I think the Kibler rifle is too early. In my opinion, a better representation would be a Golden Age Lancaster pattern, like a Dickert, or a Derringer rifle, or a Southern style rifle.
 
I recommend getting a Pedersoli Charleville. The Charleville is almost identical to the Model 1795 musket made and issued by the new United States of America to their troops. That musket would also have probably been available to militia participants in the War of 1812. This is the musket I use for my War of 1812 reenacting of the TN Militia mustered under Andrew Jackson.
 
I think the Kibler rifle is too early. In my opinion, a better representation would be a Golden Age Lancaster pattern, like a Dickert, or a Derringer rifle, or a Southern style rifle.

I must respectively disagree. Rifles built in the 1770s were still in use during the War of 1812. Many militia members, particularly in rural areas, relied on firearms passed down through generations or built decades earlier.

While advancements in firearm technology occurred between the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, most of these improvements were incremental, and older rifles remained effective tools for militia use. Additionally, the U.S. government often struggled to fully equip militia forces with standardized weapons, so individuals frequently brought their personal arms to the fight.

I mean, for heaven’s sake… there are instances of members in the Confederate forces still using flintlock rifles during the Civil War!
 
Last edited:
I'd think a 1795 musket or the 1763/66 Charleville would be a correct choice. I generally think militia trained and used a common weapon. Sure, they reported carrying the family gun, but when mustered they would be issued a common arm for their unit. To effectively supply the militia with equipment and ammo requires common training and armaments.
 
Last edited:
I think the Kibler rifle is too early. In my opinion, a better representation would be a Golden Age Lancaster pattern, like a Dickert, or a Derringer rifle, or a Southern style rifle.

The average reinactor wouldn’t know what kind of rifle is appropriate for a war of 1812 representation.

Just to go over a few facts.

Rifles such as a colonial long rifle would have been available, similar in style but is not exactly correct, but the average person simply wouldn’t know this, so i think a Kilber is ok. I would simply argue that similar style rifles were used, the more common calibers of that were 40-54. Anything in .58 or .62 is probably going to be on the British side.

Muskets for the War of 1812, 1795 springfields are absolutely appropriate throughout the war. Believe it or not, there were quite a number of third model brown Bess contract muskets used on the American side but mostly the New England militia and security contractors.

1803 and 1814 Flintlock Rifles were used by both the military and contracted to militia under the common rifle system.

Northwest guns would have been used by both US and Canadian militia as they were widely traded by that point.

1795 contract rifles and Virginia system military rifles would have been available also.

As far as civilian rifles are concerned, its very hard to say what is appropriate and what is not, by the 1790’s there many styles of civilian rifles being produced in the early republic era. one thing I will say though is that militia units preferred smoothbores for drilling, unless they were of the Rag Tag type units in the South that Jackson had recruited.
 
I'd think a 1795 contract musket or the 1763/66 Charleville would be a correct choice. I generally think militia trained and used a common weapon. Sure, they reported carrying the family gun, but when mustered they would be issued a common arm. To effectively supply the militia with equipment and ammo requires common training and armaments.

There were a few French muskets being used by New England Mlitia units during the War of 1812, mostly th e1766 and 1774 models with US surcharges.
 
I would like your thoughts on what might be a good rifle for a militia man in the south during the war of 1812 or creek war? I’m talking a southern Militia, much like would have been seen among Jackson’s troops. Would the Kibler Colonial suffice? Thanks
Yes, the Kibler Colonial would be very appropriate for that time period
 
Two rifles that would make a good candidate are David Crockett's first rifle, it was a York County rifle, about .48 caliber, typical late Lancaster style with double set triggers. Then there is the William Ross rifle documented as being at the Battle of New Orleans, about .38 caliber, made in Virginia, also with double set triggers. Both had brass patch boxes as well.

Photo below is of the Crockett rifle.
 

Attachments

  • Unknown.jpg
    Unknown.jpg
    134.5 KB
Last edited:
I really like the York Co. style ever since a friend and his wife moved there! The Susquehanna River has lots of history to it, and being right next to Lancaster Co. doesn't hurt! :)Not to mention that Cabin Creek is in York Co.!
 
I must respectively disagree. Rifles built in the 1770s were still in use during the War of 1812. Many militia members, particularly in rural areas, relied on firearms passed down through generations or built decades earlier.

While advancements in firearm technology occurred between the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812, most of these improvements were incremental, and older rifles remained effective tools for militia use. Additionally, the U.S. government often struggled to fully equip militia forces with standardized weapons, so individuals frequently brought their personal arms to the fight.

I mean, for heaven’s sake… there are instances of members in the Confederate forces still using flintlock rifles during the Civil War!
I respectfully disagree. This was fifty years after the revolution, while a man may have dads or grands rifle the population more then tripled
Most men that were of fighting age that owned a rifle would have had a rifle built in the last decade or two. There just wasn’t enough old rifles to supply new shooters. A colonial/revolutionary rifle would have been rare, not because they were unserviceable but just lack of numbers
 
I respectfully disagree. This was fifty years after the revolution, while a man may have dads or grands rifle the population more then tripled
Most men that were of fighting age that owned a rifle would have had a rifle built in the last decade or two. There just wasn’t enough old rifles to supply new shooters. A colonial/revolutionary rifle would have been rare, not because they were unserviceable but just lack of numbers

I tend to disagree. While it’s true that the population grew significantly after the Revolution (which was actually only 37 years prior), there’s substantial evidence to suggest that older rifles were still in circulation and frequently used well into the early 19th century.

First, many families during this period passed down firearms as valuable heirlooms. Rifles, especially those of higher quality, were expensive and durable tools, often representing a significant investment. The cost of purchasing a newly built rifle in the early 19th century—ranging from $10 to $20—was prohibitive for many people, particularly in rural communities. As a result, older rifles were often maintained, repaired, and handed down through generations. Considering the average lifespan of a man during that era was 35-40 years, it only stands to reason that the child of a man who served during the American Revolutionary War could have inherited it and used it during the period in question.

Second, contemporary accounts and militia records from the War of 1812 confirm the presence of older-style rifles in use. For example, rifles with characteristics typical of the colonial period, such as heavy barrels and patchboxes, were noted in inventories and descriptions of civilian volunteers’ weaponry. This supports the idea that colonial/revolutionary rifles were still practical and relied upon even decades after their original construction.

Finally, rifle production in America during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, while growing, was still limited compared to the demand. Gunsmiths primarily worked on a small, local scale, and mass production didn’t become widespread until later. This scarcity meant that new rifles couldn’t always meet the needs of a rapidly growing population, further encouraging the continued use of older firearms.

In short, while new rifles were certainly being made, older colonial and Revolutionary-era rifles were far from rare, especially in regions where access to new production was limited or financial constraints made acquiring a new rifle impractical.

I’ll leave you with this:

Do you truly want to carry the same firearm as every other bloke in your unit, simply to conform to an established mold? While standardization has its place in military formations or historical reenactments, there’s something undeniably compelling about stepping outside that box. With a bit of creativity and an imaginative backstory, you can craft a truly unique arm that not only stands out but also adds depth and character to your impression.

I guarantee you that firearms like Kibler’s Colonial were carried by militia members during the War of 1812 and the Creek War. You shouldn’t have to go far to find documentation (either written or illustrative) of this.
 
Last edited:
I tend to disagree. While it’s true that the population grew significantly after the Revolution (which was actually only 37 years prior), there’s substantial evidence to suggest that older rifles were still in circulation and frequently used well into the early 19th century.

First, many families during this period passed down firearms as valuable heirlooms. Rifles, especially those of higher quality, were expensive and durable tools, often representing a significant investment. The cost of purchasing a newly built rifle in the early 19th century—ranging from $10 to $20—was prohibitive for many people, particularly in rural communities. As a result, older rifles were often maintained, repaired, and handed down through generations. Considering the average lifespan of a man during that era was 35-40 years, it only stands to reason that the child of a man who served during the American Revolutionary War could have inherited it and used it during the period in question.

Second, contemporary accounts and militia records from the War of 1812 confirm the presence of older-style rifles in use. For example, rifles with characteristics typical of the colonial period, such as heavy barrels and patchboxes, were noted in inventories and descriptions of civilian volunteers’ weaponry. This supports the idea that colonial/revolutionary rifles were still practical and relied upon even decades after their original construction.

Finally, rifle production in America during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, while growing, was still limited compared to the demand. Gunsmiths primarily worked on a small, local scale, and mass production didn’t become widespread until later. This scarcity meant that new rifles couldn’t always meet the needs of a rapidly growing population, further encouraging the continued use of older firearms.

In short, while new rifles were certainly being made, older colonial and Revolutionary-era rifles were far from rare, especially in regions where access to new production was limited or financial constraints made acquiring a new rifle impractical.

I’ll leave you with this:

Do you truly want to carry the same firearm as every other bloke in your unit, simply to conform to an established mold? While standardization has its place in military formations or historical reenactments, there’s something undeniably compelling about stepping outside that box. With a bit of creativity and an imaginative backstory, you can craft a truly unique arm that not only stands out but also adds depth and character to your impression.
As I said old rifles were in use, but just think on the numbers.
In 1776 our population was about two million, approximately six hundred thousand adult men, were ten percent of the population rifle owners? Sixty thousand? I doubt it was that high.
by 1790 the population had doubled, and doubled again by 1810, the eve of the war. There was about eight to nine million about three million adult males. If ten percent were rifleman that’s three hundred thousand.
Assuming our high number of sixty thousand rifles in 1776 that’s one in five at the most, if they were all well cared for and all crossed the fall line
 
As I said old rifles were in use, but just think on the numbers.
In 1776 our population was about two million, approximately six hundred thousand adult men, were ten percent of the population rifle owners? Sixty thousand? I doubt it was that high.
by 1790 the population had doubled, and doubled again by 1810, the eve of the war. There was about eight to nine million about three million adult males. If ten percent were rifleman that’s three hundred thousand.
Assuming our high number of sixty thousand rifles in 1776 that’s one in five at the most, if they were all well cared for and all crossed the fall line
I understand what you’re getting at, tenngun, but this is also assuming each household only had one rifle.

The OP asked whether a Kibler Colonial (which is also offered as a smoothbore, mind you) would suffice for the intended time period of 1812. I think that evidence and reason indicate it would.
 
Last edited:
I understand what you’re getting at, tenngun, but this is also assuming each household only had one rifle.

The OP asked whether a Kibler Colonial (which is also offered as a smoothbore, mind you) would be accurate for the intended time period of 1812. I think that evidence indicates it would.
It wouldn’t be inaccurate, it would just be unusual
There were lots of men still wearing knee breaches, and even tricorn hats.
There were lots of 1970s cars on the road in 2012, but not usual
 
The original question was would a Kibler Colonial Rifle suffice in an 1812 reinactment?

You both have said that it would. True there would be fewer of this type in 1812, but they most surely would be present, and the gun would suffice.

Bottom line…if the gun represents a time period before the time period of the gathering, it will suffice.

The Devil is in the details…
 

Latest posts

Back
Top