What size ball for a .75 caliber?

[Sidney Smith]

When I finally finish my Rifle Shoppe matchlock, I plan to at least try shooting round balls. The bore is .75 caliber. What is a good sized ball for such a bore? Thanks.

 

[tenngun]

.690 if your making paper cartridges. .715 will give a tighter fit. .735 should you shoot patch, but historically we don’t have documentation that was done in smooth bores till the 19th century
A match lock might use apostles. Pre loaded wooden tubes. And a tighter ball might be more correct then small

 

[springfield art]

I happen to have a mold for .715. I have an India-made Bess with a .74 cal. bbl., in addition to my Peder Bess; haven't shot either much, BTW.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

When I finally finish my Rifle Shoppe matchlock, I plan to at least try shooting round balls. The bore is .75 caliber. What is a good sized ball for such a bore? Thanks.

If you have a true 75 caliber I would go with .735. Just try some before you purchase a mold in the event you plan on casing your own.
Larry

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

… historically we don’t have documentation that was done in smooth bores till the 19th century …

Sorry, that’s not true. The late Michael ‘Matchlock’ Tromler from the EU, whose personal collection of snaplocks & matchlocks exceeded that of museums, has documented patch use in smoothies back to the 1600s.

For MLs, I agree with around a ~730 ball for patched loads and 715s, or smaller for paper cartridges.

 

[TobJohn]

Sorry, that’s not true. The late Michael ‘Matchlock’ Tromler from the EU, whose personal collection of snaplocks & matchlocks exceeded that of museums, has documented patch use in smoothies back to the 1600s.

For MLs, I agree with around a ~730 ball for patched loads and 715s, or smaller for paper cartridges.

Here is an article that was written by a friend of his, that mentions the size of ball vs bore. The ball seems to be roughly 95% the bore:
Matchlock Musket, Suhl appr. 1630

 

[Sidney Smith]

I plan to fire either a bare ball over and under wadding, or a patched ball. I'm not concerned with historical correctness in this regard. My primary concern is which will be more accurate out to about 50 yards, as I plan to try hunting deer with this gun at least once or twice a year.

 

[tenngun]

Sorry, that’s not true. The late Michael ‘Matchlock’ Tromler from the EU, whose personal collection of snaplocks & matchlocks exceeded that of museums, has documented patch use in smoothies back to the 1600s.

For MLs, I agree with around a ~730 ball for patched loads and 715s, or smaller for paper cartridges.

That’s real interesting. I have always believed patching a ball made sense n a smoothie, but never could find an early reference to it. I stumbled across it being mentioned before 1847, since the author records having seen it.
I often thought anyone who shot a rifle and had a smoothie would have tried it. Just didn’t leave a mention of it.
I think long on the ‘Kentucky Rifles’ of New Orleans. Most of the men lost their rifles in a boating accident. They ended up shooting a variety of smoothbores. Most had been patching balls all their life, why would the quit….. but I can’t prove it
Would love to read this as I’ve always beloved it ‘must have been true’ but a thousand must have been a ain’t worth one document

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

That’s real interesting. I have always believed patching a ball made sense n a smoothie, but never could find an early reference …

I was wrong on the dates for the earliest known ‘patched’ smoothbore loads … as Pukka Bundook had posted the info with pictures … and it dates from the 1500s in Germany … not the 1600s!

 

[Pukka Bundook]

The way the late Bill Curtis loaded a musket, (He shot for GB for a good few years)
was a full charge of powder, (say 125 graind at any rate) a thick felt wad, half inch or more, a ball close to bore size, a great glob of soft lube, (Udderly Smooth in my case) another thick good quality felt wad, and ram it all down.
He and we also, had no trouble loading and firing ten or thirteen rounds loaded in this manner in a timed event.
Those using a patch could at times be struggling to finish their shots.
Loaded in this manner, we once tried out percussion EIC muskets from a rest and found we could keep the balls in 3 1/2 to four inch groups at 50 metres or 55 yards. this for thirteen rounds, (ten best to score)

A good friend who died most tragically before his time also shot for England, and he loaded a light charge with a patch of denim. I forget the ball size, but Mark could score in the mid to high 90's offhand at the 50 metre target.
Believe he used 65 grains 2F.

 

[TBone]

if you look at De Gheyn's Exercise of Arms, the matchbooks were shot with loose bll. no paper cartridge, no patch. Paper cartridges were known and used at the time, but primarily for the cavalry wheellock pistols. In 1607 the bandoleer of charges was still used for muskets. They were not called Apostles in period. The Dutch regulations from 1596, the earliest codified, state that muskets should have a bore of 10 balls to the pound standing (i.e a 10 ga bore, or .775"), and shoot a ball that was 12 balls to the pound rolling (.e. shooting a 12 ga ball, or .729"). The English used an even smaller ball but had switched to paper cartridges, and over time they reduced their musket bore size to 0.750". Keep in mind that the Dutch regs were for speed loading in line formations. Having shot early style muskets using De Gheyn;s manual, I recommend a larger ball than regulation. it will get a little tougher to run it home after a few shots. I would recommend a .735" ball for a true 0.750".

 

[Jay Templin]

.735 is my go-to in a Pedersoli Bess with paper cartridges or wads.

Jay

 

[Janissary]

Sorry, that’s not true. The late Michael ‘Matchlock’ Tromler from the EU, whose personal collection of snaplocks & matchlocks exceeded that of museums, has documented patch use in smoothies back to the 1600s.

Would like to hear more details, if you have any, about how widespread this was in what contexts. E.g. was it only for hunting or also for war.

Having tried patched roundball in my smoothbore, I can't imagine a sane person doing it on the battlefield, but then again maybe they were better at loading/cleaning than I am.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Jan,
A patch in a smoothbore does not need to be tight like in a rifle. as long as the ball is held centered in the bore and does not move forward when muzzle lowered, it will work ok.
We see depictions of the Landsknechts of the 1500's, sometimes carrying their short guns muzzle down, so they had to use something.
At that time, rounds were sometimes carried with paper cartridge of powder tied to the sprue! So that in that case, the ball would be fairly close to bore diameter, but the paper attached to its tail would likely act as a wad to hold the ball in place.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I plan to fire either a bare ball over and under wadding, or a patched ball.

That's fine. Do yer own thang as shooters have done since the first ignition of bp. As long as safety is in the process do what you want. When I had my Ped. Brown Bess I used a .715" patched ball. I cast my own. Sometimes I loaded the patched ball over a wad but never really saw a difference in performance.

 

[nit wit]

I use a .715 patched ball. Works well for me.
Nit Wit

 

[rickystl]

It would not hurt to first mic your bore, if you haven't already. That way you will know the true bore size is .750 or possibly a half-caliber larger or smaller. The old rule with a smooth bore, if using patched round ball, is to use a ball 2-3 calibers smaller than nominal bore size. I found this generally true.
For me, I also found that using a loading block with pre-lubed patch and ball helped me a bunch. Especially during matches. After a few rounds, I found my greasy hands would occasionally have me making the goof of not getting the ball seated in the center of the patch while starting down the muzzle. The loading block solved that problem, plus allowed faster reloading.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Wrong info I just posted so deleted it!

 

[RAEDWALD]

The way the late Bill Curtis loaded a musket, (He shot for GB for a good few years)
was a full charge of powder, (say 125 graind at any rate) a thick felt wad, half inch or more, a ball close to bore size, a great glob of soft lube, (Udderly Smooth in my case) another thick good quality felt wad, and ram it all down.
He and we also, had no trouble loading and firing ten or thirteen rounds loaded in this manner in a timed event.
Those using a patch could at times be struggling to finish their shots.
Loaded in this manner, we once tried out percussion EIC muskets from a rest and found we could keep the balls in 3 1/2 to four inch groups at 50 metres or 55 yards. this for thirteen rounds, (ten best to score)

A good friend who died most tragically before his time also shot for England, and he loaded a light charge with a patch of denim. I forget the ball size, but Mark could score in the mid to high 90's offhand at the 50 metre target.
Believe he used 65 grains 2F.

I was shown the same way in France by a competitive musket shooter. I recall Bill used, er, personal intimate, gel. I got a mistaken reputation when I bought seven large tubes of the stuff to try in a sale at the pharmacy….

Re Bill’s 125 grain (and my 8 gram) charge and the 65 grain loads, it suggests that Bill was looking to keep the ball at above transonic speed all the way to 100 metres whilst the other was keeping it below transonic. I take the view that the shorter time the ball has to wander about the less it can do so. The other view is that the least the musket is disturbed the less the ball will be thrown off. With my lamentable skill I cannot advise which might be best.