What the h...

[Va.Manuf.06]

I really don't believe this one:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...catId=12&subId=83&styleId=290&partNum=AAD-268[/url]

"Similar to the commercially produced East India Company Enfield muskets sold to the Confederate States, the Confederate States produced a few of their own guns. This is a correct and inexpensive weapon for anyone interested in creating a Confederate infantry or volunteer impression. The lock and barrel have been polished, blued, and are unmarked."

:bull:

:shocked2: Never happened! Neither the South nor the North received ANY firearms of this type from any source. Someone is pushing the envelope a little too far on this one. Guess where this one is made. To the moderators, I am sorry if this post is over the top, I will understand completely if it is deleted but I had to speak out. There are an awfull lot of these repops of different eras on this site now, I was used to seeing better and this one really got to me - outright horse hockey! :cursing: I wonder if it is even safe to fire.

 

[john12865]

I wonder if it has a Confederate, Red Dot on the barrel. If so, it must be genuine. :grin:

 

[blacksmithman64]

Looks like TOTW found a sucker, it ain't there,"pending sale"

 

[Tumblernotch]

Virginia, I have to agree with you! I thought the people at TOTW at least did a little research on the weapons they sell. This is probably one of the smoothbored Enfields they make for sale to English reenactors, but that's not my biggest gripe. Like you said, no Enfield pattern weapon of this style was ever sold to either side. TOTW must have gotten the idea from an old Bannerman's catalogue.

One part that really got me was where they brag about the stock wood that's been stained, etc. to resemble "real English walnut". Heck, Enfield got their wood from Italy, Belgium and France.

And apparently, according to them, the South was incapable of making adjustable rear sights for their weapons. And as you said, " :bull: " This is ridiculous! I believe I'd think twice about believing any advert I read on that site. I'd like to see a picture of that gun, but I've seen a few of that type before, made in India. They might be safe with blanks. We're probably not going to make any friends with this, but that ad is very misleading!
:thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Why don't you write TOW and challenge them on it?

 

[Zonie]

"Probably made for display or as a movie property..."

I think that says it all.

zonie

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Why don't you write TOW and challenge them on it?

That would be the gentlemanly thing to do. I'll send them a note tomorrow - for all the good it will do, it is sold. Think they will recall the sale and refund the money?

 

[tmdreb]

The MVT Enfield doesn't look so bad, but there's no place in ACW reenacting for the short barreled goofy muskets. They look wrong from far away, much less up close.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Back quite a few years ago when I was still in reenacting somebody had this type of gun on the market hoping to sell them to reenactors. I can't remember who it was. A few people bought them. They were cheap compared to the mainline guns available and a big selling point was that being smoothbored it didn't matter if all you fired in them were blanks. We were told that due to strict British gun laws, this was all that British reenactors could use. Now, how true that is I don't know. Maybe some of our English cousins could enlighten us on this. But anyhoo, that's what we were told. I got a glimpse of a couple of them and saw a thinner barrel wall than on our guns and very poor workmanship in the stock and mountings as well as wood to metal fit. I suppose you could do some refinishing and tuning and if the barrel is safe it could be a serviceable arm. It does bother me somewhat that a reputable company would advertise a "historical" weapon in that manner. I don't often visit that site and wouldn't have known about this if it hadn't been brought up, so I guess I don't really have a dog in this hunt. But I know that TOTW sells very fine products and this puzzles me. Sell it as a movie prop or display piece which it very well could be, but don't mislead a novice shooter into believing it's a good copy of a Civil War import. :shake: That's my two cents worth and I used to get 4 Bazooka Joes for that. Ain't worth much now I suppose.

 

[robinghewitt]

We were told that due to strict British gun laws, this was all that British reenactors could use. Now, how true that is I don't know. Maybe some of our English cousins could enlighten us on this.

Sounds credible, smooth bore, over 24" from muzzle to point of ignition, not more than 2" bore is a shotgun. Shoot it anywhere credible with the landowner's permission.

For shotguns you don't have to explain why you want it before you can have it. It's up to the police to raise an objection if they think you shouldn't have it :thumbsup:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

KanawhaRanger, you may very well be right, it could have come out as a "reenactor prop" or made as a costume piece for Haloween but it certainly doesn't have a place at the range or at a real living history event. The buyer may be disappointed and that is a shame. I do have a great deal of respect for TOTW, they are a good, reliable supplier of parts and tools for gunmakers and supplies for shooters and reenactors. Many if not most of the finished guns they sell are being sold on consignment for the owners so it is possible that they are simply stating what the owner wanted said? I don't know but am willing at this point to give them the benefit of the doubt. (Oh, I liked the "stained to look like real English walnut" thing too. :winking:

Roundball, I did send them a message through their site as you suggested. I explained my feelings about this particular piece making it clear that I do respect them and what they do as well as the finished products that they sell on consignment. I am surprised to see so many of the new Indian made guns there though, but fortunately, most are not as bad as this thing.

Squire Robin, thanks for your explaination of the gun laws in England, they may shed some light on this. I do have to say that I have worked with several English reenactors that came over during the 125th Aniversary of the American Civil War and they were all good people that wanted to "do it right". They would have looked at this short barreled reproduction as the proverbial "rusty musket" as we would say.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I have to say that although I've not been on TOTW's site too many times and haven't bought anything from them, I've been impressed by the amount and quality of the items they sell. So I don't hold anything agin 'em. That's for whoever might be reading this and taking it the wrong way. I'm sure they just used whatever caption the seller gave them (at least I hope so), but I hope that they read your message and are more careful and proofread any future ones.

We had several English and German reenactors fall in with us during the 125th as well and those guys worked hard and were very diligent in their portrayals and that included their weapons. Some brought their own and they did have bona fide Enfields and Springfields while several others borrowed extra ones that our guys had. Over a period of a couple of years I saw a handful of the bogus Enfields in the field but it seems they didn't last long, at least within neighboring units. I can't remember what they were going for, but I do remember that they were considerably cheaper than a EuroArms and I guess that was a selling point for the budget minded soldier. By the way, what outfit was you in?

Squire Robin, thanks for the info. I've got the "Controls on Firearms" by the Home Office saved in my computer and reading that is enough to give a Philadelphia lawyer the fantods. Our English friends explained some of the laws to us back then but it's been 20 years and my memory is about as long as...never mind.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The four fellows from England that fell in with us by pre-arranged invitation all came with good kit for the time (125th Chancelorsville) but did not have muskets. Since they had arranged to take part with us well in advance we had muskets and cartridges for them. At that time, we were the only reenactment unit using Gilham's Manual (there were over 200 of us) so they worked for a couple of hours early Friday afternoon getting their drill ready and did very well with it.

As far as the unit, I was for 19 years, a member of Co. A, 4th Virginia Infantry, of "The Stonewall Brigade". How about you?

 

[Tumblernotch]

We had three or four English recruits in our outfit as well as a couple of Germans. If I remember right at least one Englishman had his own musket as did one of the Germans. We supplied the rest with muskets as well as ammunition and maybe a few equipment items. They were great guys and a couple with their wives came back a couple of more times and stayed with my in-laws between reenactments and touring the country. They were amazed at the distances we travel over here.

I was in the First Tennessee Inf. of Archer's Brigade from 1981 till 1989 when Archer's disbanded. I was company First Sergeant and by the time the Brigade broke up I was ranking NCO. After that, parts of the 1st and 14th Tenn., the 13th Alabama and the 5th Alabama Battalion formed the 13th Virginia Inf. and I was a member of that unit until 1994. From 1985 until 1994 I was a Whitworth Sharpshooter at all the mid-war and late-war events that we were in. In fact, I served with the Palmetto Sharpshooters in my last battle at Madison Court House. I remember the Stonewall Brigade quite well. We used Gilham's Manual for a short time when we were part of the 1st Confederate Regiment, but reverted to Hardees's when we along with Mahone's Brigade were assigned flank company positions. Some of Archer's Brigade still exists, mostly in the form of the CMF (Confederate Military Forces). I'm sure you and I have met sometime in the dim past. Sorry I'm getting off topic, but it's good to hear from an old comrade.
:hatsoff:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

...I remember the Stonewall Brigade quite well. We used Gilham's Manual for a short time when we were part of the 1st Confederate Regiment, but reverted to Hardees's when we along with Mahone's Brigade were assigned flank company positions. Some of Archer's Brigade still exists, mostly in the form of the CMF (Confederate Military Forces). I'm sure you and I have met sometime in the dim past. Sorry I'm getting off topic, but it's good to hear from an old comrade.
:hatsoff:

Agreed, and I remember the days of the FCR (1st Confederate Regiment) very well, Rusty Todd and then Floyd Baines commanding. Those were the good old days. There never was before and hasn't been since a reenactment unit that could move on the field as well or as accurately as that. Drill, drill, drill... More accurate uniforms and other material culture areas have improved overall appearance but most reenactor outfits move on the field like a worn out machine that is throwing off parts, even the good looking "clothes horses". Too bad no one has concentrated on doing it all well. I've mooved on to "another place and time", but still miss those days. :hatsoff:

 

[Tumblernotch]

I remember Rusty quite well, Floyd not as much. I'm sure you remember George Hefner and Blane Piper too. Do you remember Pappy Wilson? He's my father-in-law. The maneuvers and firings we did were legendary. All because of as you said, drill, drill, drill! We took pride in our achievements, but by the time we finished drilling, sometimes we were almost too tired to do the battle!

I met my wife through reenacting in Archer's and were married in a Confederate wedding. I have great memories of those years and although I've moved on as well I think back on those times with great fondness. Though I started back in 1974, those years with Archer's, Mahone's and the Stonewall Brigade were the "Shining Times".

I reckon we've overstayed our welcome on this thread and probably should continue on a new one if we care to. Have a great day!
:grin: