what to use instead of lead balls

[Robby]

Write letters to your rep while you're at it. (staying on topic)
Why? You are subjects, not citizens.
Robby

 

[Nuthatch]

Write letters to your rep while you're at it. (staying on topic)
Why? You are subjects, not citizens.
Robby

It's easy to poke fun at CA. Real easy at times. But it's not nearly as bad as you might think.

Oddly, it's our proposition system, where anybody who can gather enough signatures can put something on the ballot for a popular vote, that is our biggest threat. It ended mountain lion hunting, hunting bears with dogs and bobcat hunting. Democracy -- it's not all rainbows and unicorns. For better or worse, it makes us a far more democratic state than a lot of others.

 

[Robby]

Many constitutionally based propositions have been overturned in your state by a superior court system that acts more as a politburo than an arbiter of issues held against the law of the land, The United States Constitution. We are not a democracy, we are a Republic!
Robby

 

[FishDFly]

Having been intimately acquainted with Commiefornia's fin and feather cops, they will make you pull a ball to check, if they are feeling the slightest crotchety . and they always feel crotchety. Married one of the first female CA fish cops, so i know!

Out of curiosity, how do you pull a steel ball?

 

[FishDFly]

OHHHHHH MY!!!!!
We are not allowed to talk of such atrocities as this - and putting a link as well - bad ju-ju........

There are such things in existence that are allowed in that state and if folks wanted to talk about such things, they could do so by PM and no one would know.

Just a thought.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Arizona offers over the counter blackbear tags. I have a LOT to say about California, but none of it will do any good to you. I can only assume you are stuck in CA for whatever reason. It's bad, but we are still at least a year from having to send in Snake Plissken. You are free to leave for now. Hunt a different state. No way would I willingly hunt with a .490" bismuth ball. You could buy a larger caliber gun to compensate for something like bismuth or ITX, say a 62 caliber, then figured out how to make it shoot. Or you could drive a couple hundred miles to the USA and just hunt.

 

[Bigpete]

Here is what I found;

https://www.rotometals.com/lead-free-bullet-casting-alloy-bismuth-based/
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Roundballs/products/704/
Originally researched and conducted by Roundball.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/non-lead-projectiles-for-hunting.89247/
Given the above action taken today, I was asked to repost this on another forum, thought it might be of interest here again as well, for anyone needing to consider non-lead projectiles.
I did some research, range testing, and took a deer last year using a solid brass ball in my .58cal Early Virginia....here are the details...somewhat lengthy:
=================================================
Gun
SIZE TESTING APPROACH
Sized 20 with steel Dial Calipers, 3-4 different axis measurements per ball.
Sizes seemed identical no matter which way I tried to measure them.
I even then locked the dial caliper jaws open at .5625" and repeatedly picked up & dropped the balls through the jaws knowing they'd be going through on a different axis each time.
None ever hung up, further substantiating the consistent measurements, nothing out of round, etc.

WEIGHT TESTING APPROACH
Weighing 20 of them they all came in just about perfectly at 201 grains.
A couple were 200.8 grains, a couple were 201.3 grains, the rest dead on 201 grains.
Only a fraction of a grain variance which is virtually no weight variance at all, and far more consistent than typical lead balls.

MY INITIAL TEST SUMMARY
Extremely high quality / consistent brass balls in both size & weight.
Basically .562" round balls at 201 grains.
No question that these solid brass balls will pose no risk in loading & fitting my .58cal/.580" bore.
Essentially a 200grn projectile, it falls between a .50cal/175 and .54cal/225 in ball weight.
Plus, with the added benefit of a larger frontal area at .562" diameter I’m confident that it'll get the job done on an eastern whitetail at typical woods distances.

All that remains is to test powder charge & patch thickness for an accurate deer hunting load.
This should turn out to be a readily available, high quality, non-toxic PRB out of a .58cal.

=================================================
RANGE REPORT - JULY 12, 2012
.58cal Non-Toxic Brass Balls as PRB's in place of lead PRBs

EQUIPMENT
TVM Early Virginia
Rice 38" D-weight .58cal x 1:72" x .016" round bottom grooves;
Chambers Deluxe Siler / Davis DST;
Sights previously zeroed at 50yds for 100grn Goex 2F PRB deer load;

NON-TOXIC BRASS BALL TEST USING SAME SIGHTS / SAME SIGHT PICTURE
Goex 4F prime
Goex 2F main
.62cal Duro-Felt OP wad, lubed with NL1000
.028" Cotton Duck patch, lubed with NL1000
.5625" Solid Brass Ball from 'Online Metals'
Weight = 201 grains

TESTS CONDUCTED FROM BENCH REST
100grns Goex 2F = 1+1/4" ragged hole at 50yds...POI=dead center
MV=1367 fps

120grns Goex 2F = 2" group at 50yds...POI=1.5" above dead center
MV=1611 fps

FINDINGS / CONCLUSIONS
An outstanding non-toxic PRB substitute;
Zero loading and shooting problems;
Extremely accurate & consistent...easily as much, if not more so than lead balls;
Significant penetration, traveling through 21" of tightly packed / shredded rubber mulch;
Recovered balls showed zero damage what-so-ever;
Recovered balls had zero change in ball dimensions, verified with calipers;
Balls can be reused if captured in a medium like this to cut down costs;

I hope to get a deer with it this fall for some first hand field results.
But based on my experiences, I have no doubts this non-toxic PRB sub will get it done.

So if states continue to ban the use of lead projectiles in various hunting areas, know that at least one very viable alternative is readily available in the form of solid brass balls for the .58cal.
Considering that...AND the proven outstanding ragged hole accuracy for weekend practice shooting using penny apiece 9/16" marbles out of a .58cal...the changing hunters environment might now be more to think about when making a caliber selection for the future than we've had to do in the past.

In my own case, for continued weekend shooting practice/enjoyment and deer hunting, lead could be banned from the face of the earth tomorrow and I wouldn’t miss a beat with a .58cal on hand.

=======================================
Once fired (1X) balls in the photo were recovered after passing through 21 inches of rubber mulch in a cardboard trap box I made and don’t have a mark on them, no changes in dimensions, patches are perfect. Will be field testing them on deer in the next few weeks.
(UPDATE: I ACTUALLY USED ONE OF THESE ONCE FIRED BALLS TO TAKE A DEER IN LATE OCTOBER, 2012)
Nonlead Certification for Ammunition Manufacturers

2013; the original but not latest attempt to ban all hunting and gun ownership in the state of Kalifornia.
http://www.latimes.com/local/polit...ry-brown-gun-control-20131011,0,6334949.story

This is really interesting!

 

[rusticbob]

It's easy to poke fun at CA. Real easy at times. But it's not nearly as bad as you might think.

Oddly, it's our proposition system, where anybody who can gather enough signatures can put something on the ballot for a popular vote, that is our biggest threat. It ended mountain lion hunting, hunting bears with dogs and bobcat hunting. Democracy -- it's not all rainbows and unicorns. For better or worse, it makes us a far more democratic state than a lot of others.

Far more democratic? Sir, you have been drinking the “coolaid”!

 

[BadDaditood]

Yes, I'm trying to find that info now. He found a company that produced both brass and copper balls and you could buy just a few at a time. I do not remember what sizes he found or the caliber his rifle was so no promises.

I remember that post, he used a .54 cal

 

[BadDaditood]

View attachment 123076

Out of curiosity, how do you pull a steel ball?

Another “stuck steel Ball” thread ?!?

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

I finally sourced .492-3 brass ball. Had it manufactured as it is not a common size. 3 weeks from order to delivered and kinda expensive so don't tell the wife.
Works with a .010 pillow ticking patch in the T/C Hawken, Trad Hawken and CVA unmentionable, no way with .018 patch though. I'll have range report in a few weeks when I get some time.

 

[Darto]

https://shop.tomboboutdoors.com/main.scseem to have some in stock.
they are close to lead in density though have a higher hardness .
Ridgecrest huh? i spent a week broke down there one night!

http://tomboboutdoors.com/

 

[flconch53]

Has anyone tried lead free pewter. The trade name is armatell I think. I would think it would work well in a smooth bore anyway.

 

[flconch53]

You could cast your own with lead free pewter

 

[Africa58double]

Perhaps you could powder coat ? No Lead would be ever available to be seen or released into any environment.

I’ve literally Smashed flat a cast Real Conical Bullet with a sledge hammer and the powder coat I added did not come off- No lead was showing. I cast them with Lead/Antomony that made them approx 8Bhn then Powder coat adds a little. These are my .58 cal 445gr Lee REAL bullets. These shoot exceptionally well in my Double at 80 yards. They would need to be Taken to a lab and somehow have the Powder coating removed (Good Luck) then have the Bullet Analyzed for Lead to determine anything is unjust.

“Excuse me Sr- are you hunting with lead?”
“Actually it’s a Chemical Element atomic number 51 with a protective Powder coating similar to a Jacketed Bullet”- “So step off , COPPER!”

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

If fish and foul doubts your ammo is lead free they take a sample and have it tested.

Re:
How will wildlife officers check for compliance?
All ammunition in a hunter’s possession may be inspected by wildlife officers. In some cases, if a wildlife officer suspects a hunter is in possession of lead ammunition and cannot prove otherwise in the field, he or she may seize a cartridge or bullet for further analysis. Hunters are encouraged to assist in confirming compliance by retaining and carrying in the field ammunition boxes or other packaging.

 

[Africa58double]

Just humor me here.

If I smashed flat a Conical I made- and no metal was showing- only powder coating…..
With that in my pocket

As I show that to a Officer- proving no lead would be available to the environment- even if it Was deformed and exited after a animal….

How is that not sufficient for the requirements?

No Lead would be in the environment to do harm.

I guess that’s a silly question- becouse we are talking about a place that has some very silly rules/laws… and Common Sense dosnt apply to this thought pattern.

 

[deerstalkert]

A58D, you are talking about a state that will allow a colt 1911 gold cup national match to be purchased but not a Springfield clone!
these examples are not real just the gist of the way of thinking common in the brain dead government there.
I sorely miss the state of my birth, it went extinct about 50 years ago.

 

[Africa58double]

Your example of the Springfield clone is a good one- perfect example actually. Shows The Common misconceptions and misunderstanding of laws/rules/regulations in that “Environment”
It’s unfortunate becouse the Traditional muzzleloader took care of large angered Furry animals there many many years ago- and they used Lead to do it.

A58D, you are talking about a state that will allow a colt 1911 gold cup national match to be purchased but not a Springfield clone!
these examples are not real just the gist of the way of thinking common in the brain dead government there.
I sorely miss the state of my birth, it went extinct about 50 years ago.

 

[Robby]

"Shows The Common misconceptions and misunderstanding of laws/rules/regulations in that “Environment”"
No, they know what they are doing, exactly what they are doing, The incremental removal of firearms from their "subject", not citizens, "subjects". And if you think those same like minded pinks's aren't working toward the same goal in your state, you are ignorant.
Robby