What Wood For A Stock

[Ames]

And heavy as an anchor. Thats why you never see it.

 

[tenngun]

I’ve never seen a sycamore gun stock. While very pretty it’s a mite soft.
Question was for a Kentucky rifle.
Most Kentucky rifles were made in Pennsylvania, Maryland or Virginia maple would be the go to wood for this style.
Kentucky gun makers who started later on would use local woods. Here you might find walnut and cherry. Guns coming north out of North Carolina and Tennessee might be on maple walnut cherry and importantly beech. Today we associate beech with low price, but it had its day. Bean was very heavy in to beech
So the question is when and what general style of Kentucky rifle you want?
1770 rifle is different then the rifles of Jackson’s Kentucky rifles of the war of 1812

 

[ppb]

Going to the Alabama/Kentucky Show next week.

If you could pick any wood for a long rifle, what wood would it be for beauty and strength?

Have a decent budget and want to do it right.

I wouldn’t know ‘till I got there to see what was available.
This could be worrisome…

 

[Artificer]

Not really in the weeds. A lot of good information there.
I've found that most people mistake the pattern that ring orientation makes for the direction of the grain. This can lead to weak places in bows or rifle stocks.

Hi Nock,

I don't know what you (or other readers) may know about wood, so please excuse me if I cover anything you already know.

European Gunsmiths (including British ones) first choice of gunstock wood was and remains European Walnut. However, when they got here, that type of Walnut was not native to the North American Colonies. Our Maple was the closest wood to the European Walnut they had used, so that's part of the reason it is so often seen on original guns and especially rifles. Of course, the figure of our Maple was something customers then and still today truly appreciate.

However, there are TWO main types of Maple here and though both can be used for gun stocks, one is clearly better/stronger. Now this is where it can get confusing. The two types are Red Maple and Sugar Maple. Now it may sound like Sugar Maple is softer, but in fact it is the stronger of the two and thus always costs more. Best to remember that "Hard" or "Hard Rock Maple" is always Sugar Maple.

The next thing to consider for stock strength and this is important in ANY wood one may choose for a gun stock, is whether it is "slow growth" or "fast growth." When you look at the end of a log or slab, the smaller width of the rings, the slower it grew. Slow Growth wood is much stronger than fast grown trees. Generally speaking, the more difficult it was for the tree to grow, the smaller the rings and the stronger it is. Though this may be before your time, that's why two of the Largest Gun Stock Wood Providers, Rheinhardt Fajen and Bishop were located within sight of each other in Missouri. That area is so hilly and poor ground for trees to grow, as a rule there was much more slow growth wood available there. Unfortunately, with the change of tastes in modern gun stocks to laminates and fiberglass, both of these providers are gone, though some of their workers still run Wenig Custom Gun Stocks. However, they don't sell stocks long enough for long rifles. Bottom line when choosing a stock for strength, look at the rear of the stock for the one with the smaller/tighter rings.

Now as to how wood is cut, there are basically two ways. 1. is Plain/Flat/ or Slab Sawn (all mean the same thing). 2. is Quarter Sawn. Though the following link adds a third type calling it "Rift Sawn," it is actually a type of Quarter Sawn, by the way the rings run when it is cut.

Sawn Lumber - Quarter Sawn vs Plain Sawn vs Rift Sawn (advantagelumber.com)

Generally, Plain Sewn is more prone to warping and twisting and that is not a good thing for the rather fragile forearms on long rifles. However, the center slab actually has the same kind of ring structure as Quarter Sawn, yet that CAN be a problem when cut from smaller diameter trees. The very center of the log is the oldest and deadest portion of the tree, so it may have weak wood right in the middle of the slab.

Historically and still to this day, lumber and gun stock providers charge the most for quarter sewn stocks because it is the most stable and least prone to warping AND there is the most waste of wood when sawing it this way. Since you don't use the very center of the tree, it won't have a possibility of weak wood. HOWEVER, this type of sawing CAN give you grain run out that makes the stock VERY weak at the wrist, if the grain comes out at an angle to the wrist rather than flowing in line with the wrist. Personally, I don't care how pretty or how much figure there is in a stock blank; IF the grain doesn't flow along the wrist for strength - then I won't use it. This is why some of the major stock manufacturers employ clear templates to place over slabs of wood, to see how the grain would flow through the wrist and before they mark the outlines of the stock blank.

I'm not sure how many people know that those looking for the best grain structure in wood for gun stocks were from trees that were blown down in storms or were pulled from the ground roots and all by a device well known in the 18th/19th centuries as a "Tree Puller." (Many times the lower part of the tree stump provided the curvature of the grain for the wrist.) A Tree Puller could pull the whole tree and stump out of the ground at one time or just the stump if the upper portion had been chopped. I have seen drawings of these in my books on 18th century wood working books, though I couldn't find a picture of one on the internet to copy. Here is a picture of a similar one from the 19th century pulling a stump out of the ground.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

Hi Nock,

I don't know what you (or other readers) may know about wood, so please excuse me if I cover anything you already know.

European Gunsmiths (including British ones) first choice of gunstock wood was and remains European Walnut. However, when they got here, that type of Walnut was not native to the North American Colonies. Our Maple was the closest wood to the European Walnut they had used, so that's part of the reason it is so often seen on original guns and especially rifles. Of course, the figure of our Maple was something customers then and still today truly appreciate.

However, there are TWO main types of Maple here and though both can be used for gun stocks, one is clearly better/stronger. Now this is where it can get confusing. The two types are Red Maple and Sugar Maple. Now it may sound like Sugar Maple is softer, but in fact it is the stronger of the two and thus always costs more. Best to remember that "Hard" or "Hard Rock Maple" is always Sugar Maple.

The next thing to consider for stock strength and this is important in ANY wood one may choose for a gun stock, is whether it is "slow growth" or "fast growth." When you look at the end of a log or slab, the smaller width of the rings, the slower it grew. Slow Growth wood is much stronger than fast grown trees. Generally speaking, the more difficult it was for the tree to grow, the smaller the rings and the stronger it is. Though this may be before your time, that's why two of the Largest Gun Stock Wood Providers, Rheinhardt Fajen and Bishop were located within sight of each other in Missouri. That area is so hilly and poor ground for trees to grow, as a rule there was much more slow growth wood available there. Unfortunately, with the change of tastes in modern gun stocks to laminates and fiberglass, both of these providers are gone, though some of their workers still run Wenig Custom Gun Stocks. However, they don't sell stocks long enough for long rifles. Bottom line when choosing a stock for strength, look at the rear of the stock for the one with the smaller/tighter rings.

Now as to how wood is cut, there are basically two ways. 1. is Plain/Flat/ or Slab Sawn (all mean the same thing). 2. is Quarter Sawn. Though the following link adds a third type calling it "Rift Sawn," it is actually a type of Quarter Sawn, by the way the rings run when it is cut.

View attachment 113671

Sawn Lumber - Quarter Sawn vs Plain Sawn vs Rift Sawn (advantagelumber.com)

Generally, Plain Sewn is more prone to warping and twisting and that is not a good thing for the rather fragile forearms on long rifles. However, the center slab actually has the same kind of ring structure as Quarter Sawn, yet that CAN be a problem when cut from smaller diameter trees. The very center of the log is the oldest and deadest portion of the tree, so it may have weak wood right in the middle of the slab.

Historically and still to this day, lumber and gun stock providers charge the most for quarter sewn stocks because it is the most stable and least prone to warping AND there is the most waste of wood when sawing it this way. Since you don't use the very center of the tree, it won't have a possibility of weak wood. HOWEVER, this type of sawing CAN give you grain run out that makes the stock VERY weak at the wrist, if the grain comes out at an angle to the wrist rather than flowing in line with the wrist. Personally, I don't care how pretty or how much figure there is in a stock blank; IF the grain doesn't flow along the wrist for strength - then I won't use it. This is why some of the major stock manufacturers employ clear templates to place over slabs of wood, to see how the grain would flow through the wrist and before they mark the outlines of the stock blank.

I'm not sure how many people know that those looking for the best grain structure in wood for gun stocks were from trees that were blown down in storms or were pulled from the ground roots and all by a device well known in the 18th/19th centuries as a "Tree Puller." (Many times the lower part of the tree stump provided the curvature of the grain for the wrist.) A Tree Puller could pull the whole tree and stump out of the ground at one time or just the stump if the upper portion had been chopped. I have seen drawings of these in my books on 18th century wood working books, though I couldn't find a picture of one on the internet to copy. Here is a picture of a similar one from the 19th century pulling a stump out of the ground.

View attachment 113713

Gus

I’m thinking much of the interest in stumps was for knees.

 

[Artificer]

I’m thinking much of the interest in stumps was for knees.

Oh, brother..... I think that quip fell a bit flat.

Gus

 

[Coot]

I’m thinking much of the interest in stumps was for knees.

Pulling stumps was primarily for clearing fields to enable plowing. The stump wood could possibly be used for knees if oak but walnut and maple are not shipbuilding woods. Many texts on shipbuilding show how the sections of trunk & branches were cut for knees. While the gunsmiths at CW indicate that the bottom 5-6 feet of the trunk was the primary source for gunstocks (as the trunk swelled out at the ground, increasing the likelyhood of the grain running thru the curve of the wrist) but perhaps the same curve in the grain might be available where a large branch leaned out from the trunk at a slight angle?

 

[oldwood]

Every ash stock I ever used went out of my shop quickly. Folks like it's grain , and add a little burl or curl , game over. Once a sawmill guy sawed some sassafras for me. It came from a large derelict log , a farmer had thrown into a dry sink hole near home. Turned out to be a light weight dead ringer for some French walnut , I had on hand. So , built some copies of Foreign guns out of it. Solanco mentioned sycamore was usable. When I was gathering up stock wood in the early 1980's , no local mill would sell their sycamore to me. The mills had it , but it was in high demand for railroad ties and cribbing blocks. Every farmer in the area had some local black walnut put up in a barn drying , so that easy to get. One of the worst woods I ever worked was Turkish walnut. Other name for it is Circassian walnut. It's attractive when finished ,but very chippy , and no fun to carve ,or shape.........oldwood

 

[Artificer]

but perhaps the same curve in the grain might be available where a large branch leaned out from the trunk at a slight angle?

Good point, Coot. Yep, in trees like that or even "double" tree trunks, where the tree was split by lighting, but recovered and two upper trees grew off one stump.

Gus

 

[pamtnman]

I am a little surprised not to have seen or heard of sycamore being used. Back in the day maple sugar was an important and valuable commodity. Butcher blocks, for example, used to be sycamore because people did not want to cut a sugar and cash producing maple.
Flat sawn sycamore is boring. But quarter sawn it has lovely grain and can have chatoyance.

The only sycamore I’ve experienced that didn’t warp was quartersawn, and not only is it stable, it’s beautiful as heck, too. Tons of houndstooth checkerboard pattern. The bowl turners like sycamore for this appearance, too. I imagine a 3” thick quartersawn sycamore blank will produce one of the most unique and beautiful gunstocks possible. Gotta get the grain correct through the wrist, but once that’s angled right, it’ll be a special stock

 

[pamtnman]

oldwood,

Thanks, nice explanation..

Reason I asked is I heard that birds eye maple is prone to chipping and breaking. It to me has great eye appeal, but don't want to have problems.

My goal is to find a rifle there and do it right.

Fish, I buy and sell and mill standing timber, and it’s tough to find consistently figured maple of any sort. If you can find a 3” thick gunstock-length piece of birdseye maple, you’re going to probably pay a lot. My experience with it is it’s very chippy, requires extra sharp tools, very shallow passes, and super slow pressure to avoid tear out. Like all well sanded sugar maple, it’ll probably take a light stain unevenly, so a best bet is tung oil or linseed oil. If you go this route, I’d be really interested to see the final result. It will for sure be a one of a kind and especially beautiful. You might consider using Alabama Damascus steel for your fittings and furniture, too, to match it.
below is a screenshot I just took of some of their “buckshot” pattern, and the right one would nicely complement a birdseye stock

 

[Africa58double]

My Brother is a master carpenter with a large saw mill specializes in hard wood…. Figured oaks, Maples, Cherry and Walnuts.
I’m just saying… what ya looking for? He has plenty, Does FaceTime orders.

 

[ord sgt]

I have used walnut, beech, plain maple, curly maple and cherry. Cherry gives a good grain pattern. That was in a Lancaster school long rifle. Jaeger in curly maple. Pa. long rifle in plain maple. Pistol in walnut. T/C kit walnut. CVA kit in beech.

 

[Brokennock]

Fish, I buy and sell and mill standing timber, and it’s tough to find consistently figured maple of any sort. If you can find a 3” thick gunstock-length piece of birdseye maple, you’re going to probably pay a lot. My experience with it is it’s very chippy, requires extra sharp tools, very shallow passes, and super slow pressure to avoid tear out. Like all well sanded sugar maple, it’ll probably take a light stain unevenly, so a best bet is tung oil or linseed oil. If you go this route, I’d be really interested to see the final result. It will for sure be a one of a kind and especially beautiful. You might consider using Alabama Damascus steel for your fittings and furniture, too, to match it.
below is a screenshot I just took of some of their “buckshot” pattern, and the right one would nicely complement a birdseye stock View attachment 113743

There was someone, within the last year or so, on here or ALR, maybe both, that posted a small bore longrifle he made of birdseye maple. Absolutely gorgeous gun.

 

[martin9]

Here's a birdseye gun I built last year.... the pic really doesn't do the figure justice though.

I actually used a some damascus on my "smooth rifle" as well....no pics of that one yet though.

 

[pamtnman]

Here's a birdseye gun I built last year.... the pic really doesn't do the figure justice though.

I actually used a some damascus on my "smooth rifle" as well....no pics of that one yet though.

WOW

 

[Ames]

You hear it referenced once in a while, but I've never seen it. Anybody here have a picture of a stock made with apple? I would love to do a half stock apple Ohio rifle.
Yes. I know old apples tend to hollow out from the years, but I've busted up tons of it for firewood that was sound.

 

[Brokennock]

Here's a birdseye gun I built last year.... the pic really doesn't do the figure justice though.

I actually used a some damascus on my "smooth rifle" as well....no pics of that one yet though.

Yeah.... I think that is the one I meant in my reply. Not my style rifle,,, but, very beautiful, so well-executed, the wood and finish is gorgeous and metal-work balances so well.
I feel like Damascus furniture would be too much with all that is going on with the wood on a gun like this.

 

[tenngun]

Here's a birdseye gun I built last year.... the pic really doesn't do the figure justice though.

I actually used a some damascus on my "smooth rifle" as well....no pics of that one yet though.

Museum of the fur trade has a charger made of antlers. Something we proudly show off today, but it was stained to look like birds eye maple.
I recall when I first saw it how funny it was that one would try to cover up antler
Another thing I recall about our ancestors different view was how often fine wood was painted over.
As late as the 1940s I recall an article in mechanics illustrated on how to box in a footed bath tube to make it look like a modern apartment tube

 

[Coinneach]

I think maple is the way to go. Or walnut. Or cherry....... Oh crap I guess I kind of like them all. Maple sure is pretty though.

For plain wood I prefer Cherry if its available, Curly Maple is beautiful if finished right, but after now having 2 of them I dont ache for another one.