What's happened to muzzleloading?

[TANSTAAFL]

You are right, the 78 NAPR nationals were held at Livingston, just north of Jellystone. We made that one also, (we had he!! of a time getting through east gate of the park with antlers, skins, lodge poles, faux griz claws, eagle feathers, talons and such) if remember right, the land was owned by some state legislator.

All in our club, (Yellowstone Mountain Men from Cody WY) were good friends with the Livingston group, we also held mini rondys at that site and others with just members from the two clubs.

I can still feel those early morning electrical like shocks when whipping one's skin with sage brush in the steam boiling up from those hot rocks in the sweat lodges. Then running nude out of the lodge, yelling like idjits and leaping into those icy streams. Ah yes, the best hang over medicine ever, not to mention the fond memories thereof times yet today.

 

[loophole]

I really appreciate y'all sharing your thoughts. I didn't expect so much feed back, and all of you have given me some things to think about.
Dave, I guess you and I have a lot in common--we both got out of the sport for a while and got back in to find it has moved along without us. I guess the opportunities for really great times are still there, just fewer, harder to find, and in many cases, we'll have to make them.
To all of you who can say "if you can remember that rondy in '82 you weren't there," my brother had an interesting comment. We were talking about the possiblity that with few young folks in the sport, things might get awful dull, and he said: "Yeh, but would you really want to camp with a bunch of loud, obnoxious young drunks like we were back then?" I suppose I couldn't take the strain today, and I'll guarantee that no man, woman or beast wants to see me running naked out of a sweat lodge.
And to those of you who share the noble sport of angling for trout with a flyrod, let me know if you're ever in or around Asheville and I'll share my wisdom about local streams--it won't take long for me to tell you everything I know, but how many excuses does a grown man have to leave work a little early and be wading the river in 45 minutes?

If at first you don't secede, try, try again.

 

[BS]

How many young boys and girls are activily involved?

This is the secret to keeping it going. Getting and keeping the young folks interested!

With all the sports and aferschool activities available to the young folks it is hard to do.

A good example is 'paint ball', would a young boy or girl like to slowly load and shot a muzzleloader or rapid fire a .69 caliber paint ball gun. Most young boys like paint ball, so guess where the girls will be.

And.................

When is the last time that the TV show Daniel Boone was on? When I was a boy everyone wanted to be just like Fess Parker. Ask a yooung one now days who Fess Parker was, and what do ya think they will say? "HUH"

Now we have Video Games and Cell Phones!

We might have to start up our own "DRAFT" and get some of the young ones involved. :kid:

But that is about what it will take.

OK...........more!

Ther is an ole saying "get the young girls involved and the boys will follow"

 

[roundball]

".....get the young girls involved and the boys will follow"

Kinda like deer hunting the rut...find the ladies and the bucks will be there!
::

 

[CrackStock]

Loophole,

I had a different experience in ML. I started putting together a gun kit and then another before firing any shots. I then began shooting to prepare for deer hunting and then got hooked on paperpunching for a long time. I killed deer and other game and lately became interested in making more correct gear for re-enacting Rev War. I am becoming interested in extending my outdoor experience with my guns and equipment. I do not enjoy some of the structure of some of the military events, but like to be in the woods with good company, equipment and guns.

Where would you go for your treks and what would you be doing? For me, it would be a hunting trip or woods walk.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

[BS]

".....get the young girls involved and the boys will follow"

Kinda like deer hunting the rut...find the ladies and the bucks will be there!
::

Yep Roundball, just like the "Rut"
:thumbsup:

 

[Maynerd62411]

I was refering to personal comfort , as in keeping warm. Of course they weren't around then. But the question is , how far are you willing to go to be PC?
Myself, I don't like being frozen when I can stay warm. Outside appearance is one thing but underneath is quite another. And I'm NOT giving up my Fruit-of-the-Looms,either.

 

[tg]

"It's a shame to me that under the current definition of the law, we can't simply be muzzleloading comrades."

As long as there are those who know what the intent of the ML seasons was... and how they ended up... definition of the law be damned, there are two radicaly opposed factions in existance.

 

[Light Dragoon]

I could write a book on that event....Oh....the cat soldiers..passed on now...Crazy bear??? Yep...all PC...today. Sorry state.

Linda Holley....tipis

I saw Crazy Bear not TOO many years back... hmmm, well, come to think of it, might have been a good 15 years ago, LOL! Yikes, I didn't think I was that old... :: I heard a LOT about the "Cat Soldiers" though. And my kids still treasure their "Crazy Bear" medallions!


"I also remember one night, John Baird (Baird, John D: Hawken Rifles The Mountain Man's Choice) got his fleece ribs tickled with a Green River blade. If I recollect right, (have been wrong before) it was Terry Johnston (a medic at the time, and later one of the greatest early western authors ever) whom patched him up."

Yeah, that would have been one (well, I won't say on a public forum) what did the slice and dice, as I recall. I wasn't at that one (I made it to Elizabeth Ridge a couple of times though), but I DID get a nice NW Fusil that the suspect made. Still have it in fact, nice little gun!

Ah, the memories! ::

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[Holley]

Hey, you MISSED the ladies in 1980 La Junta, Co., coming down the way to the sweat lodge and the "gentlemen" coming out...what a saloot. One guy was carriing his towel...with no hands. :what: We didn't care for PC then and had a great time. :crackup: :crackup: Spanglehoffer(sp,)writer for one of the gun mags taking pictures and participating or was he on the ridge??? The AirForce jet piolot who flew one time too many CLOSE over the camp and finaly got a BIG saloot of two lines of heavily armed, though no balls, poweder hello. I can still recall the serial number on the tail section. Like to see the camera film from the noise of the jet on that one... or what ever, those boys came back with stories and so did I.

Charlten Heston and the Columbia crew who came to premeire the move got a "warm" welcome of cannons fireing horse apples at them. That was the complements of the Cat Soldiers and Crazybear. And the bushway was none to happy...but Heston laughed....At least we didn't get his wife dirty. That is another story. The Frying pan contest to see who could hit Heston, at his request. Got great Picturs of this.

Then the 1986 Colorado with The Lady DogSoldiers..did ever enforce the dress codes there. Joe Delerond did a great job with that. Andddddd the Red Brigade with Kathy Smith...that poor boy...will never forget his night with the ladies. :shocking:

Where have those days gone....???? :: ::
Lawsuits,State and governmental laws, Religious camps within the Rendezvous imposing bed or noise times and we ourselves who have gotten older and have to have our comforts to survive. Would anyone dare today to do a Horse salute...NO! The person being fired at would sue due to mental anguish
The horses would sue because of miss use of their material
Someone would sue the cannon makers for unappropriat use
Some parent would sue because of the violence...no rating
And, somebody would sue because they got their YELLOW buckskins dirty.
:sorry: :results: :imo: :master: :blah:

 

[Tahquamenon]

Hi TG,

That is your interpretation and you are more than welcome to it.

My and many other's "intent" is to continue to be law abiding sportsman and conservationists.

eace:

 

[laffingman67]

Charlten Heston and the Columbia crew who came to premeire the move got a "warm" welcome of cannons fireing horse apples at them. That was the complements of the Cat Soldiers and Crazybear. And the bushway was none to happy...but Heston laughed....At least we didn't get his wife dirty. That is another story. The Frying pan contest to see who could hit Heston, at his request. Got great Picturs of this.

I guess you could call that a poop storm :crackup: complete with thunder

Yep vous sure has changed over the years. I just got into this 15 years ago and vous has changed alot. ... ever notice that folks want to emulate a ranger or mountainman or longhunter, but wants to play a lawyer though! :haha: Law suits are what not only ruined vous, but they've also made people loose their common sense. :curse: ff:

nuff of that!

 

[loophole]

Crackshot, I'm blessed to have a primitive log cabin on about 40 acres up in the mountains--no electricity, phones, running water or other 20th cent. stuff. I have a range on the property. It is next door to an old farmstead in a secluded valley, now owned by the NFS and maintained as a wildlife habitat. A few local folks have discovered it's crawling with deer, turkeys, and small game, but the city bred backpackers and mountain bikers haven't discovered it yet, so I almost always have it entirely to myself. I'm not much of a hunter but sometimes I walk in the woods with my longrifle or bow or a Ballard .22 rifle (made in 1898) and pretend to hunt. I'd go stark raving mad if I couldn't get out of civilization at least a few days a month.
Where do you live in S.C.? I'm thinking about organizing a rifle frolic in the fall--maybe you'd like to join us?

 

I grew up in the 1960's - shot an original C&B revolver when I was about 15 or 16 and got hooked on BP. I like guns in general but have always been partial to ML rifles and pistols. I raised all four of my sons to be gun safe and they all enjoy guns and shooting but care nothing for blackpowder. Too messy, too time consuming, etc., and I think my rifles will just wind up on the wall after I'm gone. When you combine that attitude with the general anti-gun views prevalent today, I think you will continue to see a decline in interest in ML shooting.

I went to college in the late '70's and could hunt, fish, target shoot, etc. on public land in East Texas. My old college room mate's son is now going to the same school and told us the forests are closed - even camping is forbidden in many areas. It seems that organized reenactments or target shoots may be about all anyone can do anymore without breaking some ordinance.

 

[tg]

"That is your interpretation and you are more than welcome to it" I have seen many polls the last few years and most folks with more than a couple of years of "ML" hunting under their belts feel the same way, and I do believe in following the law...just that being the "law" does not make something "right" and some states are making changes to get things back to where they were intended to be before that which could not be foreseen came to be.

 

[Tahquamenon]

:agree: to a point.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthr...;gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[PaulN/KS]

tg,remember that the law allows what honor would prevent.The hunting sports have seen an increase in the use of technology to substitute for woodscraft and skill but this would be another subject for elsewhere... ff: :m2c:

 

[3 stinky dogs]

What is a rock lock ?

 

[Maestro]

rock = flint

 

[David Teague]

Hello Loophole,

I saw my first black powder gun shot when I was about 10 or so... I got the Black Powder bug bad and had to have one after that.. When I was 13(I'm 47 now) I got my first muzzleloader and have been shooting them ever since.

I was interested in the American Civil war but was stuck in Eastern Oregon as a young lad, so I was one of those Civil War camps set up by a Skinner at a Rondy in the 70's. I shot patch round ball out of a old Mississippi rifle so I could compete in the shoots (no minnies allowed) We'd have a modern camp for the tin tipis and a primitive camp for those who wanted to rough it. The point of these event was to SHOOT!and shoot we did. (This was when many people in black powder really didn't have a clue how people dressed in the 1830-40... I saw some amazing outfits, amazingly bad when I think about it now, but we didn't know better in the 70's)

A funny thing happen starting in the later 70's in the Oregon muzzleloading community, guys I always saw at events just weren't coming to the shoots anymore They were joining a group called the "American Mountain Men"... Get this, they had to have historic gear, clothing, gun and a persona of a trapper... We heard tell that they could go a whole event in the woods and not shoot their rifles!!!

About this time i joined a group of like minded Civil war shooter and we formed a live fire group so my shooting became more Civil War and less rondy/ trail walk.

I moved to Alaska in 1981 to work for a gun shop that wanted to build up it's black powder department and while working on that I jumped into the fur trade and the local club. I had a hoot for the next few years but a sad thing happened, the people I dearly loved in the local club either died or left the state in a matter of just a few months... the people left in the club were the ones who drove me nuts as a firearm salesman so I stopped shooting with the local club in the mid 80's. I kept my muzzleloaders but played with class III weapons and combat shooting instead for the next few years... (please bear with me, there is a reason I'm telling you all this)The local Combat club became a ISPC joke so I quit shooting with them. Shot Cowboy Action with the local club until they required you to be a member of SASS before you could even step onto the range...
So I looked into my closet and spied my muzzleloaders... (I still was shooting them off and on during the late 80-early 90's, even picked up a few new ones when I saw one I had to have).I hadn't done anything with the local club in years, but ordered in a new subscription to Muzzleloader and started reading... wow, things had changed across the nation (for the better I thought).


There were groups of all types across the US, you could do trekking, living history, target shooting, etc. If you liked a timeframe, there was equipment, guns and gear for it... matchlocks, doglocks and more! People were having classes in Native American languages so it would fit their persona or you could just go punch paper at the local range... ( I'm not going to bring up modern inlines and the other trash that's come about too :curse: man I HATE those things :imo

So to sum up my rambling posts:Yes, the old days are gone (along with many of the people I shot with) Things are different, better in many cases, but we have lost clubs, events and venues thanks to lawsuits, insurance, and politics.

The sport has matured(but so have we).

Thanks to the internet, we are a world wide community. You can find like minded people and arrange to go out in the woods with em thanks to forums like this.

I think things are looking pretty good to me with muzzleloading. :hatsoff:

Cheers,

David Teague

Here is an 18 year old Civl War reenactor in 1976... hey thats me!