What's the purpose of the Patch box

[musketman]

Could be, the wood inside the patchbox, and the wool cover over the rifle, showed not a single trace of it. They were clean as a whistle.

Next time it happens, chill the stock, any traces of the tallow will congeal and show up better once cold...

Was the car a convertible and the patchbox left open, the birds would eat it as suet... :grin: :haha: (just joking with you)

 

[TN.Frank]

You wouldn't want to put pre-lubed patched in a "patch box" because you'd have to tip the rifle up to get to em' and if you'd already dumped your powder charger down the barrel you could dump it out if you weren't careful. Personally, I'd store extra flints or small tool in the "patch box" because I keep my per-lubed patches and balls in an Altoids Tin in my shooting bag, that way I can grab a patch and ball out of the tin at the same time so it's easy to load. Now a "Cap box" would be a totally different story. I'd store caps in the round cap box since the gun would be fully loaded except for the cap. That way you could tip up the rifle to get to a cap without dumping anything out of the barrel.

 

[Hoyt]

The biggest problem with following this practice is that when you leave your rifle in the hot car there won't be any tallow in the box when you get back. Don't ask how I know. The funny thing is, I could never figure out were it went. It was completely gone without a trace.

If it was my vehicle..I'd know what happened to it.
Either ants or roaches..unless tree frogs like tallow. I got a couple of big fat one's of those in there that love ants and roaches.

 

[Ridge]

I have an ashtray in my car that I put ashes in.

My friend keeps change in his.

I don't think you can point to any one original rifle (or reference) and find an answer to this question. I think it varied a lot.

Personally, there's a piece of rolled up pre-oiled patching material in all of mine.

 

[reddogge]

You wouldn't want to put pre-lubed patched in a "patch box" because you'd have to tip the rifle up to get to em' and if you'd already dumped your powder charger down the barrel you could dump it out if you weren't careful.

Personally I would remove a greased patch from the box before loading the rifle.

I have a suggestion for those patchboxes in handmade rifles. Mark a small piece of buckskin with a Sharpie with the details of who built it and when it was built. You know it will out live you and several of your heirs so why not record the data and keep it with the rifle.

Or do as the Swiss did, put it on a piece of waterproof paper under the buttplate.

 

[graybeard]

Prelubed patches will keep. I fill the patch box on my .50 flintlock T/C Hawken with prelubed patches and they keep fine. The cover is tight. I used to keep them in a cap box but foundit hard to open the cap box with cold or greasy fingers. :cursing: You need both hands, while one will do to open the patch box on the butt and pull out a patch. graybeard

 

[bnail]

That's about the direction I'm leaning Greybeard. With all the fumbling I do when loading, It just seems an efficient method. Also, it seems to me that the grease hole is a natural offshoot of the patchbox. Drop in the powder, grab a patch, give it a quick swipe against the grease, and seat your roundball.

 

We have had this discussion before and not long ago. In spite of period documentation from primary sources, once again, the primary documentation posted from three other members is being ignored in favor of assumption. "Most" is an assumption on your part. Most boxes I have opened were containing worms under the finial
(as described by Okwaho) or greased patches. Or were totally empty with traces of grease in there but did not look as if it was filled. The Patchbox is only a covered grease hole? Another grand assumption. The PATCHBOX pre-dates the grease hole found on 1830-60's southern mountain rifles. This thread, since the introduction of the primary source material(which BTW was asked for by the initiator) has now degenerated into a "let's take a vote as to what is historically correct" ballot box. Which seems to be a common M.O. around here. Look at the primary source material and draw your own conclusions. That patchbox pic... when was the grease poured in? was it ever poured in? Is it just saturated from decades of greased patches? Do all greases melt and disappear in a hot car? None of this is irrefutable primary source documentation as asked for. :shake:

 

Boxes were likely used in various ways, but many original rifles, I have been told by folks who have seen alot, had dry interiors or only slight evidence of grease, such as might come off prelubed patching. I personally saw one original rifle (Golden Age)with two paper cartridges in it--two quick follow-up shots. Some experts say they were primarily used to stow tools such as the tow worm and screw(puller). It has been pointed out (by Gusler among others) that the original term was "box" not "patchbox".

 

[dlemaster]

I have owned 4 original rifles and only one a Nicholas Hawk flintlock had tallow in the patchbox. The other were all dry as a bone.

Regards, Dave

 

[Brawdhead]

Also, it seems to me that the grease hole is a natural offshoot of the patchbox. Drop in the powder, grab a patch, give it a quick swipe against the grease, and seat your roundball.

But doesn't that put the grease in a rather inconvenient location? There you are, holding the muzzle of a rifle you've just charged, and now you're gonna either reach way down or lift it way up to lube your patch?

For ergonomics, one could have a self-closing container strapped to the forearm of their offhand. But I kinda doubt that was done. But perhaps such a container at the side or just plain have the grease glopped onto the brim of the hat like baseball pitchers do.

I'm just not buying the lube explanation. I'm thinking that the patchbox must have been for either maintenance activities (nipple pick, ball puller, etc.) or ignition activities (caps, match, flints, etc.).

Prelubed patches I could also see, as it would be rather hard to keep them clean and dispense them out of a belt pouch. That would almost justify the fancy engineering that goes into putting a patchbox there.

With prelubed patches in the stock, all you need with your rifle are balls (unless they're also stored in the stock) and a powder flask...no possibles bag. (Okay, maybe a knife--'cuz you *always* need a knife.) Of course, same is true if you spit-lube rather than pre-lube.

Then again, maybe the patchbox was just anticipating a need for a place to keep spare hearing aid batteries.

Dan in da U.P.

 

And Band-Aids. :rotf:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've thought about this at some length, but can come up with no other purpose for the patch box other than storing prelubed patches and maybe an extra ball or two. Anyone ever read any period accounts of its use/purpose? I figure anything else would rattle too much.
Would prelubed patches keep well in a patch box?

When was the last time you read an account of what is carried in the glove compartment of American cars? :haha:

I carry cleaning supplies (tow worm w/tow and a jag) and an extra flint. I've solved the noise problem by wrapping everything in a piece of cotton tick (enough for about 10 "emergency" patches if needed :winking: ). It also holds everything in should the box accidently pop open ~ which has never yet happened. I poke the lid spring through the tick and it keeps it in the box.

 

[Swampman]

I based what I said on a photo of an original, and the comments of two people you would know if I mentioned their name. I respect their knowledge, since they have studied hundreds of original guns. I believe they were filled with tallow. I'm not sure why it matters, as most folk do as they wish regardless of documentation or logic.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Who knew? I have never owned a rifle with one but I would assume the name of it "Patch Box" meant it was made to hold patches. Then again how many people put gloves in the "glovebox" of their car?

 

[Stophel]

Well, you pretty much have your answer. They apparently WERE used for greased patches (even though I personally would find the practice extremely awkward...apparently some folks didn't), and other times, they were simply used to store cleaning equipment, tow worms, picks, etc. I do know that on German guns, this was standard practice, and old German rifles are sometimes found with these tools still in the box.

This is one of the few rare cases where you actually CAN pretty much do what you want with it and STILL be historically correct! :winking:

 

[Cmabie]

My dad has a 32 caliber long rifle that came out to California during the gold rush. The cavity under the brass patch box lid is coated with tallow. So, I surmise that some of the riflemen kept their pregreased patches in there. Personally I keep cleaning jags and extra flints in my rifle patch boxes. The grease hole in the stock of my DGW flintlock is pretty useless and annoying. I got grease allover my self.
:hmm:

 

Here's the deal Mark, there has been several primary period accounts from eye witnesses that were not copying each others writings saying the same thing. None of them mention filling the butt trap or box or patchbox with tallow or grease. I personally will take 3 primary sources over 100 modern experts word on the matter if it conflicts with the eye witness accounts of those who actually lived in the time period. In this case it apparently does according to your phantom friends which you will not name. What do you think research of primary source documentation is for anyway? :youcrazy:
Believe what you will but don't be leading these newbies that may be reading this thread astray. :nono: I thought you cared about primary source documentation. :shocked2:

 

[madbrad]

I actually do keep a pair of gloves in my glove box . :blah:

 

Who knew? I have never owned a rifle with one but I would assume the name of it "Patch Box" meant it was made to hold patches. Then again how many people put gloves in the "glovebox" of their car?

As documented by Wallace Gusler and others, the name originally was NOT "patchbox", but simply "box". I am not sure when 'patchbox' began to be applied to the box. Unlike Mark, most experts I have talked with do not think the boxes were used primarily to carry tallow, but nobody says they couldn't be used for that. Most experts I have heard or read on this subject say the old guns boxes are dry or show minor grease (as would accumulate naturally over years of use from either patch storage, tool storage or simple cleaning and greasing for preservation). It is true that later southern rifles were commonly supplied with tallow holes and that the odd one was covered over with brass or leather after the fact by owners or collectors. I have seen photos of one rifle that had a hole just large enough to hold a patched ball (quick follow-up shot).