What's With Ebony.......

[longcruise]

Ramrods that is. Are there special qualities that make it a particularly good choice for a rod? They seem to have been popular on some British guns. Were they just "show" or did they "go" too?

 

[kje54]

Ramrods that is. Are there special qualities that make it a particularly good choice for a rod? They seem to have been popular on some British guns. Were they just "show" or did they "go" too?

That is actually a very good question that I've not found much data on. Basically ebony and other exotic woods were used to make ramrods on high end European muzzleloaders according to Muzzle Blasts Vol 2 #1. Author Fred Stutzenberger states that any of those woods are good if you can find them cut without significant grain run-out specifically for ramrods.

Muzzle Blasts Online,Vol 2, No 1., Ramrod Rights and Wrongs

 

[Notchy Bob]

Ebony is very dense, hard, and abrasion resistant, and provided the rod has straight grain, I imagine it would make a very durable ramrod. I don't know much about its stiffness or flexibility, but I do know it is in the same family as persimmon, which is tough and elastic. Persimmon used to be the wood of choice for golf club shafts. Ebony has always been a top choice for fingerboards on stringed and fretted instruments, and it is also used for tailpieces, endpins, and tuning pegs on bowed stringed instruments such as violins, violas, and cellos. These are parts that need to be strong and wear-resistant. I'm pretty sure I've seen a clarinet turned out of ebony, too, so vibratory characteristics that affect tone must be good, also, but that obviously wouldn't matter for a ramrod.

Ebony takes a fine finish, and is naturally black, although you see some with creamy-white streaks in it. Like ivory, it comes from Africa and has always been expensive, so having an ebony ramrod for your piece probably carried some cachet with wealthy, aristocratic shooters.

Realistically, I doubt it was functionally superior to hickory as a ramrod.

Notchy Bob

 

[Coot]

As an exotic imported wood, an ebony ramrod was one way to make a high end gun stand out from less expensive ones. Ebony was use for many precision instruments such as octants due to its resistance to wear and most importantly, its dimensional stability. I have seen ebony ramrods on pistols but do not recall seeing it on longarms. I have no idea on how big a piece would have been available.

 

[user 48679]

An Ebony stick long enough for a RR will be VERY expensive, compared to a Hickory RR - why they were usually found on top-of-the-line guns.

 

[Perf94]

Ebony is a stout, tight grained wood. It has a high oil content and when polished it retains its oil and resists drying. It is also a protected species in some countries. One could probably buy ten hickory RR's for the cost of one ebony RR. Regarding Persimmon, I purchased a driver with a shaft that I believe is persimmon. The shaft and grip measure 32 inches. The head is trashed and rather than rebuilding it I plan to use it for ramrods.

 

[Coot]

Ebony is a stout, tight grained wood. It has a high oil content and when polished it retains its oil and resists drying. It is also a protected species in some countries. One could probably buy ten hickory RR's for the cost of one ebony RR. Regarding Persimmon, I purchased a driver with a shaft that I believe is persimmon. The shaft and grip measure 32 inches. The head is trashed and rather than rebuilding it I plan to use it for ramrods.

Golf clubs typically had hickory shafts (just like ramrods). Some very early British clubs used ash but most changed over to imported American hickory. The heads were often made of persimmon due to its weight & density. Persimmon makes an excellent choice for things like mallets for the same reason as for golf club heads - heavy, dense & absorbs impacts well.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Persimmon used to be the wood of choice for golf club shafts.

No, Coot is correct; persimmon heads, hickory shafts. My dad assembled golf clubs in the 1930's and explained some of the process to me.

 

[45man]

What is this GOLF of which you speak?

 

[Coot]

What is this GOLF of which you speak?

It is the source of projectiles for certain small scale black powder mortars.

 

[Enfield58]

What is this GOLF of which you speak?

 

[longcruise]

Amazing the breadth of knowledge found here on the forum.

I have this piece of ebony that I won in a match close to 20 years ago. I made a butt plate out of a piece of it but otherwise it's been on the shelf waiting it's turn. I'm a bowyer and have planned to use it for a riser and will be doing that sometime come 2021. But, it is 31" long which would allow enough length for a rod to fit my TC Hawken and there's enough width and thickness to do that and still have enough for the riser.

I have a doweling set up that I use to turn Hickory rods and arrow shafts so that part is simple. I can't really identify grain or growth rings in it so that's still a possible obstacle but we'll see.

I'll run another topic on the making of it.

 

[Notchy Bob]

No, Coot is correct; persimmon heads, hickory shafts. My dad assembled golf clubs in the 1930's and explained some of the process to me.

Thank you, Gun Tramp and coot. I stand corrected!

That is a nice stick of ebony you have there, longcruise. Larry Potterfield of Midway USA made an ebony ramrod from scratch, as you are planning to do, and he made a video of the process. You would probably enjoy watching it. Here's a link: Video: Making and Ebony Ramrod

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[longcruise]

Thanks for that link. I use the same tool to dowel the stock and also have a taper device similar to his for arrows. My doweler set up is more complicated but it has to be for doweling softer woods like pine and cedar. The way he did it is fine for hard woods but there is too much shake and wobble in the cutting area with the soft woods.

Wish I had his machine shop!! Mine is going to be done plain everyday ramrod tips.

When I do it I'll run a pictorial the process.

 

[BJm]

I totally agree with Enfield58. Golf course is a total waste of a rifle range

 

[James C. Burnette]

I make musical instruments, and ebony is on the CITES list of threatened species. This makes it very expensive and hard to obtain in good grades. There are different species of ebony but they do not have the fullness and density of color.
That slab of ebony is worth considerable money, and makes me want to come and steal it away. LOL

 

[longcruise]

I'll start sleeping with it.

Here's information from the wood database. Ebony: Dark Outlook For Dark Woods? | The Wood Database

 

[longcruise]

Here's current pricing from a supplier.

https://www.cookwoods.com/search?q=Ebony+&type=product,article,page

 

[Notchy Bob]

I make musical instruments, and ebony is on the CITES list of threatened species. This makes it very expensive and hard to obtain in good grades. There are different species of ebony but they do not have the fullness and density of color.
That slab of ebony is worth considerable money, and makes me want to come and steal it away. LOL

I like to play music, and have some interest in stringed and fretted instruments and the woods that go into them. Ebony is definitely expensive and hard to find in the better grades, as mentioned. It is considered "vulnerable," but is not currently threatened with extinction. From the Wood Database: "CITES has three different levels of protection for species, known as Appendices." Ebony is listed as Appendix II, meaning at risk in the wild but not necessarily threatened with extinction. There is more here: Restricted and Endangered Wood Species

Taylor Guitars has launched The Ebony Project, intended to provide "socially responsible and environmentally sustainable" sources for ebony. It looks like a great idea... Planting trees, providing jobs and income for local people, and a source for a very desirable wood for musical instruments. In addition, Taylor Guitars has partnered with Buck Knives on a related project: Buck Partners with Taylor Guitars My take on it is that Taylor passes their smaller pieces and cutoffs to Buck, who then processes the wood for knife handles. Everybody wins.

Most of us are familiar with Buck Knives. Not really PC/HC for the blackpowder crowd, but they do make some good cutlery. Taylor is now a mainstream luthier, and we have three Taylor guitars in our house, currently. The Taylor engineers have developed some really interesting ideas. I have a Taylor GSMini that is louder than my D-28.

Enough about all of that, though. We ought to get back to that ramrod project.

Notchy Bob

 

[Zonie]

In 2011, the Gibson guitar company ended up paying $300,000 to the DOJ plus losing $262,000 worth of ebony and rosewood they imported from India and Madagascar. In addition to this they paid over $100,000 to the U.S. National Fish and Wildlife Foundation.

https://money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/companies/gibson-imports-wood/index.htm
I think I would avoid buying ebony to make a ramrod.