Wheel weights

[TANSTAAFL]

Paul is right: there is no way for a home caster to separate the alloying elements. The tin is the least of your worries the antimony is the real problem. Just a little of that stuff will ruin a bunch of good lead if soft balls are what you are looking for. A couple of ounces of tin per every ten pounds of lead actually helps out in the moulding process by letting your mould fill out better and your balls will still be pretty soft.

It is not only the antimony, Wheel weight alloy is around an average composition of: 1/2% tin, 3-4% antimony, 1/4% arsenic and 951/4% lead.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Just cast those wheel weights into round balls as is - myself and many other experienced shooters have been using them for many a year (for me that's 40+ years).
Despite the claims of some pure lead is not the only PC or "right" material to shoot from a muzzleloader - hardened lead projectiles were used throughout the 19th century by the English and others for big game all over the world.
Many of the experienced hunters out here in the west prefer a harder projectile for the same reason - better penetration on mulies and elk. Even on smaller game like pronghorn there's not a whole lot of need for expansion when you start out using a .45+ caliber ball - on the other hand most out here prefer 50's and 54's for the extra weight/mass.
Wheel weights will cast a slightly larger and lighter ball than pure lead so use a slightly smaller ball (i.e I normally use a .526" in my .54's with a pillow ticking patch - easily loading and accuracy is plenty good out to 100 yds as long as I do my part) or a use a thinner patch and then adjust your powder charge as needed - as always each gun is different so work up what load works best for that gun.
The Bevel Brothers wrote up an article in Muzzleblasts over the last couple of years regarding using wheel weights and they found that they are just as accurate as pure lead and IMO for hunting a the extra hardness is the cats meow - that includes experience on many elk, moose, BIG mulies, and black bear - hit them where it counts and they don't care what you used to cast your balls.........
The idea that wheel weights are "too hard" for a muzzleloader is lack of experience with them or pure balderdash........

Bingo. :thumbsup:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I am trying to extract pure lead from wheel weights. How hot does the lead need to get before it will seperate out the tin, ect?
I have a 5 gallon bucket full. Also any tricks or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks......

There are a lot of things besides tin in there, tin is too expensive to put in WW. Antimony is likley the main thing in hardening WW with some tin. Would have to get out my Lyman cast Bullet handbook and refresh my memory.
Seperation is impossible SFAIK at least by heat or at home. Probably need some electroplating process

Dan

Tin is not for hardening, it facilitates mould fill during casting. Antimony and arsenic is what hardens lead. I chill drop WW cast bullets from the mold into cold water to harden. If I want them "REALLY" hard, I will place cast bullets into a oven for at least an hour to heat treat, then "QUICKLY" quench them in cold water.

As WW alloys do seem to vary, I place a few scrap bullets nose up in a steel or cast iron pan in the oven at around 450 degrees, every 10-15 minutes, raise the temp 10 degrees, continue until the bullets just start to slum, then lower the temp 10-15 degrees. Place a batch of bullets nose up, in the steel or cast iron pan, leaving them for at least one hour, then remove quickly and quench in cold water. Heat treated and water quenched WW cast bullets will reach maximum hardiness in a couple of days after said heat treatment.

WW cast bullet hardness

Brinell hardness no heat treat: 9
BH quenched from mold: about: 30
BH oven heated and quenched: 35

 

[Dphar]

Hardened lead was the historical standard for MLs, smooth or rifled, used for heavy game.
Dan

Does anybody have any firm documentation on this, or is this just another internet myth?
Inquiring minds need to know.

The myth is that pure lead must be used for RBs in ML arms. Its simply not true. In fact MLs will shoot hard lead just fine but barrels with really deep grooves and wide lands load very hard with hard lead. So they "need" pure lead.
Barrels like Green Mountain will load WW about like pure lead. I have a 16 bore with very narrow lands and all I change is the patch. With pure lead I use a heavy cotton ticking patch, with WW, which cast larger, I use a thinner linen patch.
Both shoot to the same point of aim and with equal accuracy.


Deer, elk, moose, bear, lion or tiger are not "heavy" game. But if I were shooting a G.Bear with my 16 bore rifle I would likely use WW balls. Which it shoots as well as pure lead, maybe even better BTW.
If you read ANYTHING concerning hunting in Africa or India you will find hardened lead, usually hardened with mercury was the standard. Pure lead will not penetrate adequately on large game, period. The lead bullet breech loaders also used hard lead for this purpose. Turner Kirkland found this out when he went to Africa and shot an Elephant with a pure lead from a 4 bore. Penetration was poor about 20" IIRC. Had he read Sir Samuel Baker or Forsythe he would have known better.
You can go to Google books and find "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" bu James Forsythe. Then down load some of Sir Samuel Baker's books. "With Rifle and Hound in Ceylon" has been in print recently and might be found on Amazon or other book outlets.
Then read "Pondoro" by John Taylor where he describes killing 14 "good bulls" (African Elephant) and several rhino with a smoothbore 10 bore percussion gun with 6 drams (165 gr) of powder. He was forced to quit using it when the supply of hardened balls was exhausted. This was in the *1930s* when a ammunition shipment for his modern rifles was lost in transit.

Dan

This a 50 yard target fired with my 16 bore rifle (.662 ball). The left hole is pure lead, the right hole is WW and the middle hole is a pure lead ball shot in a paper cartridge with no patch just the ball in the paper.

 

[R.M.]

Nice looking target. :thumbsup:
I guess I should have been more specific. I was looking for documentation for what might have been used on our side of the pond, such as the Longhunter or Mountainman.I can see where a harder projectile would have been preferred in Africa.

 

[MikeChapin]

I would say most mountain men used soft lead. Powder came in small lead containers. You cut the top off with your knife and poured the powder into your horn. You melted the lead down to make balls. The lead would have to be soft to ship without cracking and be able to cut it with a knife.

That being said wheel weights will work fine. The Bevel Brothers had an article about it a while back in "Muzzle Blasts". They tested the balls and they worked fine and were accurate. You just have to sight in for them and use a little different load than you would for soft lead.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree that Wheelweights work fine in cast round ball. The ONLY CAVEAT( that is latin for ' warning') is that you weigh the balls after each casting session. Wheel weights can vary substantially in the amount of other elements that are included in the lead weight.

Once you sort the balls by weight, then measure them. Expect them to be a bit larger in diameter than a lead ball will be. That may required that you use slightly thinner patch material with the WW balls. Because WW lead varies in composition, the thickness of the patch material used from batch to batch may also change.