I went to the Royal Armouries on Saturday, and while there saw a fascinating little wheellock pistol dated c. 1530. From the bottom I couldn't quite make out the sear mechanism, everything was on the outside as the only wood part was the handle, but the sear and triggering mechanism were hidden by the lockplate. Could there have been a double sear at such an early date, or does this pistol more likely have a single sear that is pulled away from the wheel directly by the trigger?
Wheellock sear question
- Thread starter Nick D
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Leonredbeard
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Is there a place on the website that allows you to contact them? I looked at my book and it is impossible to tell what kind of sear it has. I can't tell if any of those things on the outside have anything to do with the sear.
volatpluvia
volatpluvia
Double sears were the way to go on wheellocks from the beginning, as they had been used on crossbows before that. So yes, it most likely has a double sear. Wouldn't hurt to ask though. They have a web site and I think they list a contact for the librarian; he/she can probably put you onto the right person.
I spent another few hours in the armouries yesterday, and a good amount of time in front of this particular piece. I remembered to bring a notebook this time so I could record some observances I made.
From the card:
"Wheellock Pistol
Hungarian or Italian, about 1530
XII.1765"
Unfortunately, due to copyright restrictions I can't post any of the pictures I took. I haven't found any pictures of the pistol online, so I will do my best to describe.
The first thing I noticed this time around is that the wheel has a large oval hole punched right through it. The pan cover swings away like a matchlock pan cover, and under the pan, connected by the same pin, is a rounded hook. When the wheel is spanned and the pan closed this hook sits in the hole in the wheel. As the wheel spins the edge of the hole strikes the hook, swinging open the pan and allowing the dog to fall. I've never seen an arrangement like this, it's very interesting and certainly simpler from a construction standpoint than the cam striking a lever.
As for the sear, according to the Armouries publication on their wheellocks, there is none! It says the trigger acts directly on the wheel's axle. There is a long spring on the inside of the lockplate that I can see pushes up on the trigger. If the flat of the trigger is pressing against the flat of the wheel axle, that could keep it spanned, but would mean a) the trigger spring must be quite powerful and the trigger hard to pull and b) the mainspring is much less powerful than it looks.
This is a not very good MS Pain(t) drawing of what I'm talking about.
This is one possibility, the other I thought of is that the trigger bar has a slight extension on the end to catch the axle. I won't know until I can take a closer look or talk to someone who has.
Cheers,
Nick
From the card:
"Wheellock Pistol
Hungarian or Italian, about 1530
XII.1765"
Unfortunately, due to copyright restrictions I can't post any of the pictures I took. I haven't found any pictures of the pistol online, so I will do my best to describe.
The first thing I noticed this time around is that the wheel has a large oval hole punched right through it. The pan cover swings away like a matchlock pan cover, and under the pan, connected by the same pin, is a rounded hook. When the wheel is spanned and the pan closed this hook sits in the hole in the wheel. As the wheel spins the edge of the hole strikes the hook, swinging open the pan and allowing the dog to fall. I've never seen an arrangement like this, it's very interesting and certainly simpler from a construction standpoint than the cam striking a lever.
As for the sear, according to the Armouries publication on their wheellocks, there is none! It says the trigger acts directly on the wheel's axle. There is a long spring on the inside of the lockplate that I can see pushes up on the trigger. If the flat of the trigger is pressing against the flat of the wheel axle, that could keep it spanned, but would mean a) the trigger spring must be quite powerful and the trigger hard to pull and b) the mainspring is much less powerful than it looks.
This is a not very good MS Pain(t) drawing of what I'm talking about.
This is one possibility, the other I thought of is that the trigger bar has a slight extension on the end to catch the axle. I won't know until I can take a closer look or talk to someone who has.
Cheers,
Nick
Leonredbeard
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NickD,
Thanks for the drawing. I think there must be a notch on the trigger bar where it meets the square axle. I can't imagine a spring heavy enough to stop the axle from spinning just by pressing on the flat of the axle. Just my thoughts.
volatpluvia
Thanks for the drawing. I think there must be a notch on the trigger bar where it meets the square axle. I can't imagine a spring heavy enough to stop the axle from spinning just by pressing on the flat of the axle. Just my thoughts.
volatpluvia
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I am a bit puzzled by your remark about copyright restrictions. If you copied someone else's pictures they are their copyright, but if you took them they are YOURS.
If you photographed an object created centuries ago, the only copyright involved is your property, unless you accepted a contract otherwise in exchange for permission to take the photographs. And if you accepted a restriction to private use only, a private discussion forum is still private use in the context of discussions such as go on here.
If you photographed an object created centuries ago, the only copyright involved is your property, unless you accepted a contract otherwise in exchange for permission to take the photographs. And if you accepted a restriction to private use only, a private discussion forum is still private use in the context of discussions such as go on here.
But they are the caretakers of the artifacts. From their website:
Royal Armouries Regulations
Volatpluvia, something like this?
The more I think about it, the better it seems. The trigger and axle would have to be heat treated flawlessly, though, a little to hard or soft and the pieces will either shear off or shatter.
Royal Armouries Regulations
Volatpluvia, something like this?
The more I think about it, the better it seems. The trigger and axle would have to be heat treated flawlessly, though, a little to hard or soft and the pieces will either shear off or shatter.
Leonredbeard
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NickD,
That is exactly what I was thinking. Of course, the position of the notch would be determined by the direction of the spin. But that is obvious.
volatpluvia
That is exactly what I was thinking. Of course, the position of the notch would be determined by the direction of the spin. But that is obvious.
volatpluvia
