where to buy a drop in barrel WITH OUT heli coil????

[adkmountainken]

i am looking for a drop in 62. cal smooth bore barrel for my T.C. Renagade but can only find barrels with the added heli coil which i will not use. allready called Cains and Ed is looking. any one know where i can get one? turkey season starts May 1 so i really need one QUICK!!!! thanks,
Ken

 

[roundball]

i am looking for a drop in 62. cal smooth bore barrel for my T.C. Renagade but can only find barrels with the added heli coil which i will not use. allready called Cains and Ed is looking. any one know where i can get one? turkey season starts May 1 so i really need one QUICK!!!! thanks,
Ken

I literally just got off the phone with Kerry at GM...they have received a new supply of breechplugs and are pulling some .62cal caplock barrels off the shelf that have the helicoil installed, replacing the breechplugs, sending them back through the bluing operation, etc...the bad news is it'll take a couple months for that whole process.

I guess I don't see any sense of urgency or concern on the part of GM to really scramble and get this helicoil mess flattened quickly...and that might be revealing that the revenue / profit from these type barrels must be very, very insignificant to the big picture for them

 

[2172]

Here's where I show my dumbness again..what is Heli coil ? Hank

 

[Mad Professor]

It's an insert to repair defective/stripped threads. You drill out and retap the hole and insert the helicoil which has new inner threads the same size as the original.

 

[d.thomson]

A heily coil is useualy used when you stip the threds on a spark plug opening or somthing of the like. The heily coil is screwed into the opening and tackes the place of the original threds. I hope this helps, somtimes I don't always expain things to well . Regards F.K.

 

[bob1961]

what happened to GM that all these heli's are being used :v .............bob

 

[buttonbuck]

I ordered one myself and was wondering how do you really tell if you have one with a heila coil? by serial number?????I plan to shoot my gun this weekend since I got me some round balls and 3f, and pillow ticking. ye hah

 

[roundball]

I ordered one myself and was wondering how do you really tell if you have one with a heila coil? by serial number?????I plan to shoot my gun this weekend since I got me some round balls and 3f, and pillow ticking. ye hah

When you remove the nipple or vent liner, it'll be obvious...one of these will be screwed in there first, then the nipple or vent liner screws in the coiled spring.

 

[ss1]

try Tip Curtis at Frontier Shop. He will not stock GM barrels with a heilcoil. super nice person. 615-654-4445

 

[Slamfire]

A heily coil is useualy used when you stip the threds on a spark plug opening or somthing of the like. The heily coil is screwed into the opening and tackes the place of the original threds. I hope this helps, somtimes I don't always expain things to well . Regards F.K.

If a helicoil can seal a spark plug hole against blow by, why is it unable to seal a nipple? Surely gasoline is a higher grade explosive than black powder, and to compound the sealing problem, the fuel air mixture is compressed before it is ignited. Has anyone ever tried to measure the pressures developed inside a combustion chamber? What were they? I can understand the complaint about poor installation, but not that of the basic concept itself.

 

[bob1961]

i think when i did a compression test on my motor i was getting readings of 145 foot pounds avg per cylinder....might be wrong as i didn't run out to the garage to look at the numbers on my tester....i will tommorrow though now that it peaked my interest :v ................bob

 

[Slamfire]

You can't run a compression check when the spark plug is in the hole, and an exploding mixture is in the cylinder, UNLESS you have a cylinder with two spark plugs like the motor on the '37 Nash I drove while in High School. Even then you'd need a better meter than the ones now used to record automotive cylinder compression. :v

 

[buttonbuck]

Iwould say my barrel is one with a heilcoil but is this dangerous? or are people more angry as a matter of principal. someone used the wrong sized drill bit at green mountain? If it is dangerous what does it take to send back?????

 

[cowpoke1955]

Heli coils may be fine for fixing some things. But when you buy a new barrel, you should get a NEW barrel, not one that has been fixed or refurbished! Why would someone pay top dollar for second rate items :shake: .

 

[d.thomson]

Maby GM should offer these barrels as seconds at a reduced price. Good for GM good for the customer un less of coarse the barrels are dangerous. My 2 cents F.K.

 

[roundball]

I wouldn't use one if they gave it to me for free...they've made this repair because they already screwed up drilling & tapping threads one time...and that's an operation that they should be well familiar with over the years.

Who's to say they haven't screwed up the helicoil approach too...probably the first time they've ever tried to implement such a repair...and with all due respect to references about spark plugs, there isn't a soul on this forum who can state with certainty that those installed helicoils are 100% safe...they are a bandaide repair job by people who have probably never done it before.

IMO, life's too short and complicated enough as it is...there is no NEED to take any risk with their unproven helicoil application...just get one that doesn't have the helicoil.

 

[buttonbuck]

good point I think I will suck up the shipping since I have the box and send mine back. Darn I just got 200 60 cal balls have not shot it yet.

 

[roundball]

good point I think I will suck up the shipping since I have the box and send mine back. Darn I just got 200 60 cal balls have not shot it yet.

Well, it seems like they've agreed to swap plugs rather than miss the sale, on everybody's barrel who have taken the position that they don't want a barrel with a helicoil repair job in it...you'll just have to wait a couple minths like some of us have.

I had to send my new .58cal Flint RB barrel back in the middle of hunting season.
Then in the summer of 2006 I ordered a .40cal Flinter and just got it back before the holidays because the first one had a helicoil.

I'd call Ms. Kerry Smith on ext #18 and nicely (but firmly) tell her you've decided you can't keep it the way it is and have to send it back...and you hope that she and GM will make it right, etc

 

[buttonbuck]

thank you all much I will also cross reference the serial number and make sure that it is indeed one with a helicoil, but it sure looks like one having had a cylinder head for a 2 cycle motor cycle with one in it.

 

[Zonie]

Several times when this subject comes up, folks ask "If it works for a spark plug in my engine, why won't it work for a nipple in my rifle?"

To try to answer this question, I've made a scale drawing showing a spark plug installation and a nipple installation, both using helical thread inserts.

The spark plug was drawn at full scale and the nipple was drawn at twice size so it would be easier to see.

In a typical spark plug installation, there is either a gasket or a cone area of the spark plug that seals directly against the cylinder head. This prevents any escape of the high pressure gas from the cylinder.
Even with a helical thread insert installed, this gasket or coned area will seal the assembly because the gasket or cone is larger than the outside diameter of the thread insert.

In the case of the nipple, which is a standard #11 rifle sized part you will notice that it also seals directly against the breech plug, just like the spark plug.
I derived the dimensions by direct measurement of one out of my Franklin Co rifle.

The difference between the spark plug installation is the lack of a large gasket.
In the case of the nipple, the remaining sealing area is only about .005 (five thousanths of an inch).

As the nipple and insert were drawn at nominal size this remaining surface interface may not reflect the real world.
If the thread insert chamfer at the mouth of the hole uses its tolerance and goes to the high side, the .005 wide sealing area will disappear and there will be nothing to actually seal the high pressure gasses from leaking past the thread inserts threads.

Assuming the leakage will be minimal compared with the leakage around the fired cap, one is still left with the fact that the screw thread insert is not water tight and cleaning fluids and fouling can enter into the joint between the insert and the breech block.
Of course, if GM uses a suitable sealing compound between the thread inserts threads and the breech block this fouling and fluid entrapment issue would not be a problem.

By the way, I drew the shortest helical thread insert that I know of. If GM used the "1T" length insert, it would extend down below the bottom of the nipple. I believe this is the cause of the flame channel being blocked off in some installations.

zonie