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Where to find a pot?
- Thread starter jbtusa
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I'd like to help you, but with your attitude, I'd be afraid that if I made a mistake you'd go off the deep end. :shake:
It is not too difficult to be period correct with your gear. All it takes is a little effort and a little research. You are making the effort, so good for you but you shouldn't be so condesending about it. You should take pride in your efforts. You did not mention a particular time period for you pots. There are some differences over the years so post a target year and the good folks here will help you out.
Have you tried Jas. Townsend? They have a good looking copper boiler. At least it looks good to me. Take a peek at www.jastown.com.
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Goldhunter
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That's who I'd suggest.
rafterob
62 Cal.
I can relate to his frustrations. Some reinactors can take themselves a little too seriously and can really ruin a good days fun. I think this holds true for many activities, there is always some know-it-all who is a self-appointed policeman. I let it roll off my back and go about my business.
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Ghettogun said:
Sure, but alienating the very people who can help you, by taking an attitude before anyone even says anything, is not a good way to ask for advice.
blacksmithman64
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:rotf: I understand ya, brother! I think some of them guys really know how to screw up a weekend! Check out Jas Townsend like a few other fellas mentioned! Also Mike Ameling who's a member on this board seems to be pretty knowledgable on period cookware. :thumbsup:
Michael: Thanks for the tips. I want to go with a pot but not cast. Cast is too heavy for trekking. The next question is do I go with copper or with tin? Or what's the difference or is there something better? I'm still learning all this stuff!
"taking an attitude"?? I didn't read it that way. I was once chastised for carrying the "wrong" style of horn for my Lehigh rifle by an "expert" wearing Minnetonkas. I know from where the question comes. Been there and have put up with the manure.
Just a couple sparks from this side of the fire.
Just a couple sparks from this side of the fire.
Many Klatch
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For long term use you probably want to go with copper that has been tin lined. Most "tin" these days is electroplated and doesn't last long.
Many Klatch
Many Klatch
Check out Jim Kimpell at High Horse Trading.
The last kettle you will ever need....
http://highhorsetrading.com/index.html
Tom
The last kettle you will ever need....
http://highhorsetrading.com/index.html
Tom
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Sir Michael said:
You might want to also look at C D Jarnagin (they do nice tin & not just CW) and Cauldwell Copper. Cobb Creek (listed above) had very nice copper but sadly Larry Ring passed away this winter.
Hmmm ... "self appointed policeman" ....
Some people had a "bad experience" with a self-appointed person clearly being a jerk, and everybody else not gets painted with the same brush.
To comment further, or not. That is the question.
Well, I've been called worse - and even by not so close friends.
Crazy Crow Trading Company out of Texas offers several versions of those brass and copper kettles. Plus they are the major wholesaler for so many vendors you see at events. But those brass kettles (pails) all have the same problems. They are too tall in relation to their diameter - when you compare them to originals. Plus the cast-brass bale lugs are just wrong before the mid 1800's in their style. Those brass/copper kettles are based upon an 1851 patent, but little details are wrong for earlier time periods. The small one holds 1/2 gallon.
Jim Kimpell takes those brass and copper kettles, and converts them to more closely resemble the originals. He cuts 1 1/2 to 2 inches off of the tops, re-rolls the rim, then adds those "dog-ear" bale lugs and a new sized bale to match the slightly smaller rim diameter. This extra work does add $20 to $25 to the original cost of those kettles, but it is still far less than the totally hand-hammered museum quality replicas like from Goose Bay ($100+). They are a good ... compromise ... in cost and looks. After being converted, that small kettle will now hold around 5 cups or so.
But Crazy Crow now offers a tin-lined COPPER kettle with the correct dog-ear bale lugs. It is pretty good. But it is still too tall in relation to its diameter. A minor detail, and most people won't know the difference. For an "off the shelf" copper kettle it is pretty good. But being copper its time period is more towards the early 1700's back into the 1600's. They call it their English Trade Kettle. It is listed as a 1/2 gallon kettle.
C D Jarnigan does have a couple tin cooking pots. The two on their web site are tin, have the correct method of attaching the bottom to the pots, and are pretty good overall. They hold around 1/2 and 1 gallon.
Tin kettles are very under-used in modern reenactment society - when compared to the volume of originals shipped out and traded. But things made using the modern electro-plated tin just rust out fast. The "tin" coating on the sheet iron is just too thin. Even a wood spoon will scratch them. And then rust hits. But more and more tinsmiths are starting to use HOT-DIPPED tin sheets to make items. HOT-DIPPED tin has a much much thicker coating. That thicker coating of tin on the sheet iron really slows down the rusting and scratching. Once you see and use something made from HOT-DIPPED tin, you will understand why it had such a good reputation in the past. It will cost a little more initially, but will make up for that over long-term use. Bob at Backwoods Tin and Jim Kimpell at Highhorse Trading are pretty high up in the Tinsmiths groups working on getting more hot-dipped tin in use. And there are several others already using hot-dipped tin. Karl has dealt with one guy near Chicago for stuff for Grand Portage National Monument, but I can't remember the name.
Corn boilers. Questionable - from an historical point of view. If you go to Goose Bay's web site, they do list them. But they also say right in their descriptions that they are "historically inspired", but not based on any originals. Too many little "details" of shape/construction are wrong on so many of the "corn boilers" currently being offered for sale. Wether from tin or copper, they tend to be made using those hand-cranked tinsmith machines. But those machines only really came into use in the mid 1800's - like 1840's and later. The one big obvious thing to look for is the bottom seam. It should not look like the seam on a modern food can. Nor should it have a "flange" sticking out a 1/8 or 1/4 inch or so. The bottom should lip up the sides all around and then be soldered - instead of being machine crimped. Or the sides should be cut into tabs, half being bent in, the bottom set in then the other half bent in, and the whole thing soldered. So the "corner" of the bottom seam should be a true 90 degrees between the bottom and the sides. Details ... those pesky little details.
One big problem historically is how few people were out traveling about just by themselves - and then cooking just for one. Most people traveled in groups, and then did their cooking for the group instead of for each individual. This becomes something of a conflict with modern interpretation. Each person now tends to carry their own food and cooking utinsels, and cook just for themselves. So the ... need ... for smaller cooking pots/pans has arrisen - conflicting with known history. So a personal choice ends up having to be made on this - carry a common historically based/sized pot/pan large enough to feed several people, or a smaller one to fit the needs of an individual. A personal choice.
Avalon Forge did something that several other companies offering tinware are doing. They got so many complaints about their tinware rusting out so fast - being made from modern electro-plated tin. Well, they started getting their "tin" items made from stainless steel. Same look and feel, but far far less likely to rust out. Most people cannot tell the difference between tarnished/sooted tin and unpolished stainless steel - without a close inspection. A route some have chosen to follow.
In the end, it is a matter of personal choice - as to what will fill your needs in your time period and expected usage.
Personal recommendations? Check out Jim Kimpell for the converted brass/copper kettles. Or Crazy Crow for that copper English Trade Kettle. Or one of the tinsmiths - especially if they offer HOT-DIPPED tin items. But be sure to ask about their construction methods and how that bottom seam looks and is made.
Of course, these are buy my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
p.s. While you are checking out Crazy Crow's web site, look at their Revolutionary Copper Kettle 5564-004-006. Most of the "details" of its construction are pretty good. It is tin lined. And it has that "frypan" lid! It hold around a half gallon. And that frypan lid is 6 inches wide by 3/4 inch deep. The whole kettle is a bit large to be lugging about for one person, but pretty good for a "community" pot. And that lid frypan can be use just by itself. The socket handle does not fold, the overall size isn't much for packing into a bedroll. I modified that socket handle and bale lugs to be much closer to some originals dug up at the Rainey Lake Indian village site - a mid to late 1600's site.
Some people had a "bad experience" with a self-appointed person clearly being a jerk, and everybody else not gets painted with the same brush.
To comment further, or not. That is the question.
Well, I've been called worse - and even by not so close friends.
Crazy Crow Trading Company out of Texas offers several versions of those brass and copper kettles. Plus they are the major wholesaler for so many vendors you see at events. But those brass kettles (pails) all have the same problems. They are too tall in relation to their diameter - when you compare them to originals. Plus the cast-brass bale lugs are just wrong before the mid 1800's in their style. Those brass/copper kettles are based upon an 1851 patent, but little details are wrong for earlier time periods. The small one holds 1/2 gallon.
Jim Kimpell takes those brass and copper kettles, and converts them to more closely resemble the originals. He cuts 1 1/2 to 2 inches off of the tops, re-rolls the rim, then adds those "dog-ear" bale lugs and a new sized bale to match the slightly smaller rim diameter. This extra work does add $20 to $25 to the original cost of those kettles, but it is still far less than the totally hand-hammered museum quality replicas like from Goose Bay ($100+). They are a good ... compromise ... in cost and looks. After being converted, that small kettle will now hold around 5 cups or so.
But Crazy Crow now offers a tin-lined COPPER kettle with the correct dog-ear bale lugs. It is pretty good. But it is still too tall in relation to its diameter. A minor detail, and most people won't know the difference. For an "off the shelf" copper kettle it is pretty good. But being copper its time period is more towards the early 1700's back into the 1600's. They call it their English Trade Kettle. It is listed as a 1/2 gallon kettle.
C D Jarnigan does have a couple tin cooking pots. The two on their web site are tin, have the correct method of attaching the bottom to the pots, and are pretty good overall. They hold around 1/2 and 1 gallon.
Tin kettles are very under-used in modern reenactment society - when compared to the volume of originals shipped out and traded. But things made using the modern electro-plated tin just rust out fast. The "tin" coating on the sheet iron is just too thin. Even a wood spoon will scratch them. And then rust hits. But more and more tinsmiths are starting to use HOT-DIPPED tin sheets to make items. HOT-DIPPED tin has a much much thicker coating. That thicker coating of tin on the sheet iron really slows down the rusting and scratching. Once you see and use something made from HOT-DIPPED tin, you will understand why it had such a good reputation in the past. It will cost a little more initially, but will make up for that over long-term use. Bob at Backwoods Tin and Jim Kimpell at Highhorse Trading are pretty high up in the Tinsmiths groups working on getting more hot-dipped tin in use. And there are several others already using hot-dipped tin. Karl has dealt with one guy near Chicago for stuff for Grand Portage National Monument, but I can't remember the name.
Corn boilers. Questionable - from an historical point of view. If you go to Goose Bay's web site, they do list them. But they also say right in their descriptions that they are "historically inspired", but not based on any originals. Too many little "details" of shape/construction are wrong on so many of the "corn boilers" currently being offered for sale. Wether from tin or copper, they tend to be made using those hand-cranked tinsmith machines. But those machines only really came into use in the mid 1800's - like 1840's and later. The one big obvious thing to look for is the bottom seam. It should not look like the seam on a modern food can. Nor should it have a "flange" sticking out a 1/8 or 1/4 inch or so. The bottom should lip up the sides all around and then be soldered - instead of being machine crimped. Or the sides should be cut into tabs, half being bent in, the bottom set in then the other half bent in, and the whole thing soldered. So the "corner" of the bottom seam should be a true 90 degrees between the bottom and the sides. Details ... those pesky little details.
One big problem historically is how few people were out traveling about just by themselves - and then cooking just for one. Most people traveled in groups, and then did their cooking for the group instead of for each individual. This becomes something of a conflict with modern interpretation. Each person now tends to carry their own food and cooking utinsels, and cook just for themselves. So the ... need ... for smaller cooking pots/pans has arrisen - conflicting with known history. So a personal choice ends up having to be made on this - carry a common historically based/sized pot/pan large enough to feed several people, or a smaller one to fit the needs of an individual. A personal choice.
Avalon Forge did something that several other companies offering tinware are doing. They got so many complaints about their tinware rusting out so fast - being made from modern electro-plated tin. Well, they started getting their "tin" items made from stainless steel. Same look and feel, but far far less likely to rust out. Most people cannot tell the difference between tarnished/sooted tin and unpolished stainless steel - without a close inspection. A route some have chosen to follow.
In the end, it is a matter of personal choice - as to what will fill your needs in your time period and expected usage.
Personal recommendations? Check out Jim Kimpell for the converted brass/copper kettles. Or Crazy Crow for that copper English Trade Kettle. Or one of the tinsmiths - especially if they offer HOT-DIPPED tin items. But be sure to ask about their construction methods and how that bottom seam looks and is made.
Of course, these are buy my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
p.s. While you are checking out Crazy Crow's web site, look at their Revolutionary Copper Kettle 5564-004-006. Most of the "details" of its construction are pretty good. It is tin lined. And it has that "frypan" lid! It hold around a half gallon. And that frypan lid is 6 inches wide by 3/4 inch deep. The whole kettle is a bit large to be lugging about for one person, but pretty good for a "community" pot. And that lid frypan can be use just by itself. The socket handle does not fold, the overall size isn't much for packing into a bedroll. I modified that socket handle and bale lugs to be much closer to some originals dug up at the Rainey Lake Indian village site - a mid to late 1600's site.
Captain outwater
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The most common 'pots' were tin coated sheet iron. Many had lids. Some were of copper, lined with tin (plain copper will poison you).
I recommend a 1 qt pot for the average person, with lid to keep the ashes out while it is by the fire. Copper has the advantage that it will not rust. A tinned iron pot eventually gets rusty and has to be replaced.
Both have to be kept half full of water while being heated so the solder does not melt and leave you with parts, not pots.
Giordano is a renouned tinsmith. Westminster makes good copperware. Both have various sizes.
I don't see the point to having a pint cornboiler myself...
I recommend a 1 qt pot for the average person, with lid to keep the ashes out while it is by the fire. Copper has the advantage that it will not rust. A tinned iron pot eventually gets rusty and has to be replaced.
Both have to be kept half full of water while being heated so the solder does not melt and leave you with parts, not pots.
Giordano is a renouned tinsmith. Westminster makes good copperware. Both have various sizes.
I don't see the point to having a pint cornboiler myself...
Thanks for all the leads. Man, looking at the prices of new tinware... holy smoly!!!!!
I think I'll find a junk pot at the second-hand store, cut off the handle, drill two holes in the sides and use the bail off of an old paint can to put on it.
Once it gets all sooty and grubby from the campfire, no one will know the difference!
My pocketbook will really appreciate this idea...
I think I'll find a junk pot at the second-hand store, cut off the handle, drill two holes in the sides and use the bail off of an old paint can to put on it.
Once it gets all sooty and grubby from the campfire, no one will know the difference!
My pocketbook will really appreciate this idea...
