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Sniper68,
Good to see you back.
Best Wishes
Good to see you back.
Best Wishes
-
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Whew! UGLY knife.
- Thread starter Joe Yanta
- Start date
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Thanks! :front:
Guest
Ugly? buddy, i'll show you ugly.....
OOOWwwwww! I got coffee up my nose and in my eyes!
Skanky! How you been you 'ol Frankenstein Platypus hat, you?
Did you ever get him broke o' the leg thing, Stuml'Buff?
Skanky! How you been you 'ol Frankenstein Platypus hat, you?
Did you ever get him broke o' the leg thing, Stuml'Buff?
Ya know, that thing is so damm wierd lookin I saved the pic. Now, if you really look at it somethin kinda stands out. Look at the level the bill is at then look at the top of the back of the critter. See what I mean? I dunno if it was road kill or what but looks to me the innards is still in it! I guess if the looks don't make a feller jest lay down and want to die mebbe the smell might..... :crackup:
Just kiddin Stumblin. Tell ya what, really, if'n ya ever dedide to get rid of it, lemme know, Please?
All the Best,
Curt
Just kiddin Stumblin. Tell ya what, really, if'n ya ever dedide to get rid of it, lemme know, Please?
All the Best,
Curt
Sorry fellas but I've been away for awhile. All of my time has been finishing my basement. My forge is cold and my anvil does not sing, it is a sad time. I truely appreciate all the comments and views that this thread started.
I have been asked on many occasions about making knives and tomahawks for sale. Making a fine performing knife, being it modern or period is a personal quest for me. I would not be able to enjoy this quest if I pursued it for profit. I get more enjoyment giving a knife away than I do selling one.
I would prefer to tell you how to make your own knife. If you have a piece of carbon steel, a propane torch, a couple of files and most important if your wife will let you borrow her oven for a couple of hours, you can make a pretty fine knife of your own. This knife will equal in performance as any you can buy. Making your own is more to the spirit of early America. The pride you have by making your own knife is something everyone should experience.
Thanks for your interest.
Joe Yanta
I have been asked on many occasions about making knives and tomahawks for sale. Making a fine performing knife, being it modern or period is a personal quest for me. I would not be able to enjoy this quest if I pursued it for profit. I get more enjoyment giving a knife away than I do selling one.
I would prefer to tell you how to make your own knife. If you have a piece of carbon steel, a propane torch, a couple of files and most important if your wife will let you borrow her oven for a couple of hours, you can make a pretty fine knife of your own. This knife will equal in performance as any you can buy. Making your own is more to the spirit of early America. The pride you have by making your own knife is something everyone should experience.
Thanks for your interest.
Joe Yanta
- Joined
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Stay your course Joe you sound already a rich man. :imo: :thumbsup:
Go ahead and tell us, Joe.
I had a friend build me a brake drum forge a year (or maybe two) ago. I have yet to fire the thing up. I've been holdin onto the lawnmower blades that get bent up or too worn to use anymore. I'm sure they'd make dandy knives, I just got ta get me some time ta try a few things.
My apology in advance if this is not the appropriate forum to discuss this.
Methods.
The are two ways to form a knife. One is forging, the other is stock removal. I know no one who can forge a mirror or even a satin finish on a blade. So even if you forge your blade, technically speaking, you will also have to do some stock removal to shape and finish your blade. I have made knives without stock removal but that will leave heavy forging marks and a rather crude and primitive looking blade. But that is what I wanted.
Steel.
In my opinion high carbon steel makes the best knives. O-1 tool steel, 1095 and 1084 spring steels make fine knives. Schrade Walden carbon blades and Ka-Bar USMC fighting and utility knife were and are made from 1095.
Another source for good carbon steel is to reforge an existing knife. Fine cutlery steel can be found and thrift stores, garage sales and flea markets. It will be easy to remove the handles anneal the blade and reforge or reshape the steel into another knife.
My first forge was made with one K23 fire brick. K23 is a very light brick and can easily be carved or drilled to make a mini forge. Through one end of the brick drill or carve a 1 1/4 inch hole into the brick but not all the way through it. Now locate a place on one side of the brick that would be about half way down your cavity you carved. Drill a small hole into you cavity for the tip of a propane torch to blow into. You can you forge with this, it will take time but it can be done. The most important use of this forge will be for heat treating.
I will have to close for now. I will continue tomorrow evening. Its my 31st wedding aniversity and were going out for dinner and the new Batman movie.
Joe Yanta
Methods.
The are two ways to form a knife. One is forging, the other is stock removal. I know no one who can forge a mirror or even a satin finish on a blade. So even if you forge your blade, technically speaking, you will also have to do some stock removal to shape and finish your blade. I have made knives without stock removal but that will leave heavy forging marks and a rather crude and primitive looking blade. But that is what I wanted.
Steel.
In my opinion high carbon steel makes the best knives. O-1 tool steel, 1095 and 1084 spring steels make fine knives. Schrade Walden carbon blades and Ka-Bar USMC fighting and utility knife were and are made from 1095.
Another source for good carbon steel is to reforge an existing knife. Fine cutlery steel can be found and thrift stores, garage sales and flea markets. It will be easy to remove the handles anneal the blade and reforge or reshape the steel into another knife.
My first forge was made with one K23 fire brick. K23 is a very light brick and can easily be carved or drilled to make a mini forge. Through one end of the brick drill or carve a 1 1/4 inch hole into the brick but not all the way through it. Now locate a place on one side of the brick that would be about half way down your cavity you carved. Drill a small hole into you cavity for the tip of a propane torch to blow into. You can you forge with this, it will take time but it can be done. The most important use of this forge will be for heat treating.
I will have to close for now. I will continue tomorrow evening. Its my 31st wedding aniversity and were going out for dinner and the new Batman movie.
Joe Yanta
OK, by now everyone should have their one brick forge made. Now we can shape a blade.
If you are going to use the stock removal method start by shaping the your desired profile. Your work will go much faster if you buy a couple of new quality files to work with. I like working with new files and replace mine often. To file the grind or bevel on the sides of your blade you will need to be able to secure your blade steel down on a piece of hardwood to file on it. If you place it in a vise you will soon bend it and will have to straighten it back out. Have patience, if your blade is 8th inch or less this really wont take to long. File your grind or bevel of the blade which you desire. Some like a slight convex grind to their blade, others like a flat grind. I do both at times. You wont be able to do a hollow ground blade with a flat file.
If you are going to forge the blade you will need some sort of anvil. A thick piece of angle iron will work, I started off using a piece of rail road rail about 8 inches long. Place your blade material in the forge and heat it to red/ red orange color. Remove it from the forge a bend a slight curve to the blade. It is necessary to prebend your blade. When ever your start hammering the inside of the curve of your blade the blade will straighten out. I did not do this the first time I forged a blade and when I was done it looked like a weed sicle. If you want a straight blade you have to pre bend it more than you would a skinner. Hammer the blade to shape you want. Dont worry too much about the tip, you can come back after the blade has cooled slowly and shape the tip you want with a file. Then you can forge it out some more/file it out some more until you get the blade you want.
After you shape your blade you then need to normalize it. You do this by heating it up to red and then let it cool down slowly by leaving it in your forge. The K23 brick is great insulation will hold the heat longer. You could also room air nomalize it.
Heat treating is the most important part in making your knife. A properly heat treated knife will greatly out perform a poorly heat treated knife. It is the secret of sucessful knife making. Some knife makers keep their heat treating a guarded secret. Some send theirs out to be commercially treated. I really think that it is the smaller faction of blade makers that do their own heat treating. This group can make a blade perform how ever they want. If you want a blade to be hard and hold and edge for a long time, or a softer blade to sharpen easy it is done with the heat treating.
You can even use differental heating for different areas or zones of your blade. Some like a softer spine or back of the blade and a harder edge. The blade maker who heat treats his own blades has greater flexability on making a performance blade.
Time to go work in the basement. We will get into the heating, quenching and tempering of the blade next.
Joe
If you are going to use the stock removal method start by shaping the your desired profile. Your work will go much faster if you buy a couple of new quality files to work with. I like working with new files and replace mine often. To file the grind or bevel on the sides of your blade you will need to be able to secure your blade steel down on a piece of hardwood to file on it. If you place it in a vise you will soon bend it and will have to straighten it back out. Have patience, if your blade is 8th inch or less this really wont take to long. File your grind or bevel of the blade which you desire. Some like a slight convex grind to their blade, others like a flat grind. I do both at times. You wont be able to do a hollow ground blade with a flat file.
If you are going to forge the blade you will need some sort of anvil. A thick piece of angle iron will work, I started off using a piece of rail road rail about 8 inches long. Place your blade material in the forge and heat it to red/ red orange color. Remove it from the forge a bend a slight curve to the blade. It is necessary to prebend your blade. When ever your start hammering the inside of the curve of your blade the blade will straighten out. I did not do this the first time I forged a blade and when I was done it looked like a weed sicle. If you want a straight blade you have to pre bend it more than you would a skinner. Hammer the blade to shape you want. Dont worry too much about the tip, you can come back after the blade has cooled slowly and shape the tip you want with a file. Then you can forge it out some more/file it out some more until you get the blade you want.
After you shape your blade you then need to normalize it. You do this by heating it up to red and then let it cool down slowly by leaving it in your forge. The K23 brick is great insulation will hold the heat longer. You could also room air nomalize it.
Heat treating is the most important part in making your knife. A properly heat treated knife will greatly out perform a poorly heat treated knife. It is the secret of sucessful knife making. Some knife makers keep their heat treating a guarded secret. Some send theirs out to be commercially treated. I really think that it is the smaller faction of blade makers that do their own heat treating. This group can make a blade perform how ever they want. If you want a blade to be hard and hold and edge for a long time, or a softer blade to sharpen easy it is done with the heat treating.
You can even use differental heating for different areas or zones of your blade. Some like a softer spine or back of the blade and a harder edge. The blade maker who heat treats his own blades has greater flexability on making a performance blade.
Time to go work in the basement. We will get into the heating, quenching and tempering of the blade next.
Joe
Quenching Oil.
We need a medium in which to quench the heated blade. These mediums can be water, oil or exotic mixures and secret home brew recipes. There are commercially prepared quenching oils available. The problem is you will probably have to buy a 55 gallon drum of the stuff. I use Brownell's Tough Quench. It is available in one gallon can. Quenching oils can be just about anything. I quenched a lot of blades using 30W non detergent oil with very good results.
You will need a container to hold the oil in. I use a 5 inch diameter pot that is about 14 inches deep filled to about an inch from the top.
Heating.
Actually this is pretty easy. The nature of carbon steel has taken care of this for us. 1400 F to 1600 F is known as the transformation range. When ever steel is heated within the range of these temperatures it reaches a condition know as austenite. It is non-magnetic at this point. And at the condition which you want to quench at.
I hung a small natural magnet suspended with light copper wire from a light located near my forge. When ever I think my blade has reached austenite I move it across the magnet. It is always interesting to me to see the magnet totally ignore the blade. I then place the blade back into the forge for just a few seconds so it can regain the heat I lost doing the magnet test. I also locate my oil visually and visualize me quenching my blade. I then remove the blade from the forge and as quickly as I can. Quench the blade tip first into the oil and as straight a plunge as you can control. Hold the blade steady in the oil, dont swish it around. After the smoke has cleared and the oil has stopped moving you can then remove the blade and wipe it off with a heavy cloth. Your blade could have evidence of burned carbon on it, this can be expected. But it should also have the apprearance of a dull dark carbon grey. At this point I gently ring the blade by tapping it gently on my anvil. It will "tink" or have a "ring" similar to crystal. If you drop your blade when it is this hard it will probably break. You now need to draw it or temper it. This has been an explanation of the most simplist method of hardening your blade. There are many ways to quench. Partial quenching only the edge of the blade, mutiple quenching, and quenching with sub zero temperatures are some of the other methods currently being used.
Tempering the blade.
I purchased a used toaster oven from a thrift store for $3. I can get reach temperature of 550 F with it. I use an oven thermometer to get the temperature exact. Depending on how hard or soft you want your blade to be determines what the temperature needs to be. A hard blade needs a lower temperature say from 350F to 425 F. A softer blade you will need from 425 to maybe 600 F depending on the steel. You will need to leave your blade at your tempereing temperature for several hours. Some blade makers judge the color of the steel for hardness. Straw color being the hardest and blue color in the steel being softer. I have read that the oldest and most respected custom knife maker in america using 0-1 tool steel for most of their blades quench at 1475 F and tempers at 571 F for 12 hours.
When you have tempered your blade put it to a sharpening stone. You will be able to tell real quick how hard your blade is. If it is to hard put it back in your oven at a little higher heat until you get what you want.
You can then finish your blade by sanding and polishing or leave it where it is for a primitive look. The only thing remaining is putting your handle on and making a sheath.
I have been doing this hobby for many years. I took a couple of elective courses in metalurgy. I know only enough about this to know that there is a very lot that I dont know. There are some who, will by reading what I wrote, confirm that I am at a novice level. I think that our early pioneers and mountain men would posess a little knowledge in this field to make tools. You can get into blade smithing as much or little as you desire. I no longer use some of the methods I mentioned previously. I now use a heat treating oven capable of maintaining very accurate temperatures. I also have a commercially built propane forge and a fine Trenton anvil made in the late 1800's
Give it try, I think you will be surprised by the blade you can make. The only thing you stand to loose is a little time.
There are plenty of books available on this subject if you care to study further.
I hope I havent been confusing or a bore.
Joe Yanta
We need a medium in which to quench the heated blade. These mediums can be water, oil or exotic mixures and secret home brew recipes. There are commercially prepared quenching oils available. The problem is you will probably have to buy a 55 gallon drum of the stuff. I use Brownell's Tough Quench. It is available in one gallon can. Quenching oils can be just about anything. I quenched a lot of blades using 30W non detergent oil with very good results.
You will need a container to hold the oil in. I use a 5 inch diameter pot that is about 14 inches deep filled to about an inch from the top.
Heating.
Actually this is pretty easy. The nature of carbon steel has taken care of this for us. 1400 F to 1600 F is known as the transformation range. When ever steel is heated within the range of these temperatures it reaches a condition know as austenite. It is non-magnetic at this point. And at the condition which you want to quench at.
I hung a small natural magnet suspended with light copper wire from a light located near my forge. When ever I think my blade has reached austenite I move it across the magnet. It is always interesting to me to see the magnet totally ignore the blade. I then place the blade back into the forge for just a few seconds so it can regain the heat I lost doing the magnet test. I also locate my oil visually and visualize me quenching my blade. I then remove the blade from the forge and as quickly as I can. Quench the blade tip first into the oil and as straight a plunge as you can control. Hold the blade steady in the oil, dont swish it around. After the smoke has cleared and the oil has stopped moving you can then remove the blade and wipe it off with a heavy cloth. Your blade could have evidence of burned carbon on it, this can be expected. But it should also have the apprearance of a dull dark carbon grey. At this point I gently ring the blade by tapping it gently on my anvil. It will "tink" or have a "ring" similar to crystal. If you drop your blade when it is this hard it will probably break. You now need to draw it or temper it. This has been an explanation of the most simplist method of hardening your blade. There are many ways to quench. Partial quenching only the edge of the blade, mutiple quenching, and quenching with sub zero temperatures are some of the other methods currently being used.
Tempering the blade.
I purchased a used toaster oven from a thrift store for $3. I can get reach temperature of 550 F with it. I use an oven thermometer to get the temperature exact. Depending on how hard or soft you want your blade to be determines what the temperature needs to be. A hard blade needs a lower temperature say from 350F to 425 F. A softer blade you will need from 425 to maybe 600 F depending on the steel. You will need to leave your blade at your tempereing temperature for several hours. Some blade makers judge the color of the steel for hardness. Straw color being the hardest and blue color in the steel being softer. I have read that the oldest and most respected custom knife maker in america using 0-1 tool steel for most of their blades quench at 1475 F and tempers at 571 F for 12 hours.
When you have tempered your blade put it to a sharpening stone. You will be able to tell real quick how hard your blade is. If it is to hard put it back in your oven at a little higher heat until you get what you want.
You can then finish your blade by sanding and polishing or leave it where it is for a primitive look. The only thing remaining is putting your handle on and making a sheath.
I have been doing this hobby for many years. I took a couple of elective courses in metalurgy. I know only enough about this to know that there is a very lot that I dont know. There are some who, will by reading what I wrote, confirm that I am at a novice level. I think that our early pioneers and mountain men would posess a little knowledge in this field to make tools. You can get into blade smithing as much or little as you desire. I no longer use some of the methods I mentioned previously. I now use a heat treating oven capable of maintaining very accurate temperatures. I also have a commercially built propane forge and a fine Trenton anvil made in the late 1800's
Give it try, I think you will be surprised by the blade you can make. The only thing you stand to loose is a little time.
There are plenty of books available on this subject if you care to study further.
I hope I havent been confusing or a bore.
Joe Yanta
Great information, but it may not be seen much, being in a thread titled "Whew! UGLY knife".
longshot47
45 Cal.
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Joe-
Terrific post!
.....Longshot :thumbsup:
Terrific post!
.....Longshot :thumbsup:
Great posts that I've really enjoyed reading!
Thomas
Thomas
Guest
To give to him , or use on him ? :crackup: Nice Musketman , very nice . Joe send ME that knife , so I can dispose of it properly . That knife is waaay too ugly of a knife , for a man of your caliber to have . :crackup:
How about an Ooloo (Ulu)?
I made this one for my brother...
walruskid1
54 Cal.
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- Jul 1, 2005
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i like the knives you guys have made, i only wish i was that talented. its a god given gift that some capitalize on.
Guest
I agree, looks PC, When I think of what kind of knife a trapper in 1820 would have your knife is what pops in my head. :front:
TheGunCellar
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