Which first flintlock?

[Allstajacket]

I’m having a very hard time deciding on my first flintlock. Do I buy new? Used? Either way I’m having a hard time looking and figuring it out!

What is the best site for shopping for flintlocks? Some of the ones I’ve been browsing:

Abe’s General Store Co
Dixie Gun Works, Inc
Track of the Wolf
Muzzle-Loaders.com

some models that I’ve been considering:

1: Pedersoli Kentucky Rifle, .50cal
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...110+Pedersoli+Kentucky+Rifle+-+.50+Cal.+Flint
2: Investarm Gemmer Hawken .50cal
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...er-rifle-plains-rifle-50-cal-flintlock-ia3410
3: Pedersoli Frontier .54 (or .50cal)
https://abes-general-store-co.mysho...cts/pedersoli-frontier-rifle-54-cal-flintlock

I originally was set on a Kentucky rifle due to the awesome history, but then I started leaning toward the Investarm Hawken, or Gemmer Hawken. These are a bit more affordable! It does bother me though, that Hawkens weren’t originally flintlocks. So part of me wants to get a more historically true flintlock, then get a cap Hawken down the road.


I’m also looking on this forum for a used rifle, so that maybe I can get a taste If muzzleloading without draining the bank.

what would you get?

 

[dave951]

Get what you like and don't sweat it. Shoot, learn the gun, have fun. As for your bank account, abandon all hope ye who enter.........

 

[tenngun]

I’m having a very hard time deciding on my first flintlock. Do I buy new? Used? Either way I’m having a hard time looking and figuring it out!

What is the best site for shopping for flintlocks? Some of the ones I’ve been browsing:

Abe’s General Store Co
Dixie Gun Works, Inc
Track of the Wolf
Muzzle-Loaders.com

some models that I’ve been considering:

1: Pedersoli Kentucky Rifle, .50cal
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...110+Pedersoli+Kentucky+Rifle+-+.50+Cal.+Flint
2: Investarm Gemmer Hawken .50cal
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...er-rifle-plains-rifle-50-cal-flintlock-ia3410
3: Pedersoli Frontier .54 (or .50cal)
https://abes-general-store-co.mysho...cts/pedersoli-frontier-rifle-54-cal-flintlock

I originally was set on a Kentucky rifle due to the awesome history, but then I started leaning toward the Investarm Hawken, or Gemmer Hawken. These are a bit more affordable! It does bother me though, that Hawkens weren’t originally flintlocks. So part of me wants to get a more historically true flintlock, then get a cap Hawken down the road.


I’m also looking on this forum for a used rifle, so that maybe I can get a taste If muzzleloading without draining the bank.

what would you get?

A kit like Kibler or track or Dixie. The investarms, and Traditions tend to have week locks that can be frustrating.
The perdisoli muskets and trade gun function better but are smooth bore and as much as old dyed in the capote front stuffers love our smoothies they won’t shoot as well as a rifle and that can be frustrating
Though going to a range I would say me and my smoothie could compleat with a lot of suppository shooter seem to shoot at the range.

 

[Brokennock]

Get the most you can possibly afford, for the reason @Artificer touched on, the lock. While there are some cheesy features of some of the less expensive guns out there, the biggest issue is the locks. Even if a bargain production gun were to have a great barrel, nice stock, good correct sights, and be well inlet, if the lock is of poor design and or cheaply made,,, you will have frustration. This may be one of the biggest unmentioned differences between cap and flint. A budget caplock lock will generally work, a budget flintlock lock is a gamble.

I would snap up a Kibler Colonial from @PathfinderNC next time he finishes one. You know he started with good parts, he builds a nice looking gun from them and sells them at a good value. Other similar guns are often in our classifieds. I know someone else who will build and finish a Kibler kit for you if you were to buy the kit.

Of the guns you listed, I'd buy one of the Pedersoli guns. Not as good a lock as what could come from a builder, but your odds are better, and they tend to be good shooters. Biggest downside I see to the Frontier is the chambered breach, but this can be managed, not sure if the Kentucky has this.
Also check out the classifieds on the ALR forum and many of the websites of builders mentioned on this forum sell guns taken in trade.

It would also help us advise you if you tell us your intended use/s for the gun.



Oh, and ignore the marketing b.s. from some of the manufacturers and retailers about history and dates. Example, Pedersoli write up. The Frontier really doesn't imitate anything from the time period mentioned. It is an amalgamation if visual design cues that suggest a generalized gun of that period, roughly.

 

[BillKilgore]

If you decide to go with a kit, you may want to check on Jim Kibler’s website.

https://kiblerslongrifles.com/
And Jim Chambers’ website.

https://www.flintlocks.com/
Both gents have solid reputations and may be able to sell completed rifles. They can certainly point you to reputable builders if you chose that route. Let us know what you decide.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of kibler suggestions.

I have 2 caplock and 1 flintlock pedersoli gun and they're great, I've not heard anything bad from any of the people I know that actually own one either. The patent breech is not an issue as long as you clean and maintain your rifle properly. I use mine exclusively for hunting, no targets so I need to know when I pull the trigger she's going to go bang. And they do.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The shooting of a flintlock rifle is an art form. The shooting of a caplock rifle is an example of the triumph of technology to improve the shooting experience.

As we have mentioned (@Artificier, @Brokennock, @Loyalist Dave, me and many others), the important consideration for a first flintlock is the lock itself. As often observed, the cheap locks installed on the entry level flintlocks are not for the novice. While the cheap locks can be improved to become reliable sparking and firing locks, the process of tuning the lock by polishing parts, adjusting the mainspring to balance with the frizzen spring can be daunting and new flint lock owners can be frustrated to the point of giving up on a very rewarding hobby. This is especially true if there are not a group of experienced flint lock shooters nearby to serve as mentors and technicians to help tune the lock. Sadly, even the best of locks can require some polishing of the parts that rub and the parts that rotate.

To tune a lock, locks will have to be taken apart and that requires the specific screwdrivers to fit the screw slots, clamps to depress springs to take the lock apart, and proper sized pin punches to remove items pressed into place (think of removing the hammer from the tumbler and the pins holding barrel to the stock).

The next consideration is the fit of the rifle to the shooter. I know that this is next to impossible due to appalling lack of inventory wherever the potential buyer lives.

Used guns may be an avenue for getting a rifle with a great pedigree of parts, but consideration of barrel condition and wear of internals make observation and evaluation of the rifle slightly risky unless there is an evaluation period. The buyer may incur shipping costs.

My recommendation is to keep looking in the classified ads on this Forum for a flintlock. Only make the purchase if you are satisfied with conversation with the seller and the conditions of the evaluation period. The second option is to pursue the purchase of a Pedersoli rifle. No matter what choice you make, try to find an experienced flint lock shooter close to you that can objectively participate in the evaluation.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I originally was set on a Kentucky rifle due to the awesome history, but then I started leaning toward the Investarm Hawken, or Gemmer Hawken. These are a bit more affordable! It does bother me though, that Hawkens weren’t originally flintlocks. So part of me wants to get a more historically true flintlock, then get a cap Hawken down the road.

I’m also looking on this forum for a used rifle, so that maybe I can get a taste If muzzleloading without draining the bank.

what would you get?

I'm partial to flintlock, longrifles, so for me it would be the Pedersoli Frontier in .54, flintlock.

All ML's may be quirky, and the Frontier has some small items to be aware about. The front sight post is too thick for the shooter to get the most from the barrel accuracy (imho) so swapping it out for a thinner front sight post from Track of The Wolf is a good idea. The frontier has a patent breech, so you will need a .22 or .32 pistol brush to keep the chamber free of crud. The lock uses a single lock bolt.., that's not uncommon, but Pedersoli I guess was worried about that so there is a wood screw in the lock plate just forward of the bend in the frizzen screw. One must be cautious not to strip out the wood where the screw attaches when working on the lock.

One thing folks don't often mention here on the forum is how hard use will the piece be put. YES a Kibler is a higher level of flintlock rifle, but IF I was going to put my rifle to a lot of hard use, I'd not drop the coin (or as you wrote drain the bank) on a Kibler, to then bang it around in the woods, hard hunting or on a hard trek or reenacting.

LD

 

[hanshi]

I agree that Pedersoli would have the best factory produced lock and the rifles are very fine shooters. A Kibler kit would be my first choice with a decent used smith built flintlock rifle.

 

[Daveboone]

My two cents....
For my first flinter I went with the Pedersoli (Lyman) Great Plains Rifle. Very well built, great lock and action, instantaneous ignition. I specifically went the GPR route for my first flinter to allow me to pull the barrel off easily for cleaning...as I am getting more confident with my cleaning routine, I am cleaning it in stock like I will my next flinter (Kibler Colonial). It is heavy, but a likely good alternative would be the Investarms Gimmler Hawken. From what I understand it essentially is the old tried and true Lyman GPR, which is significantly lighter than the Pedersoli. The Pedersoli is more money, but it is certainly more rifle, and I have both. The sights are much better on the Pedersoli, and I really like the captured barrel keys. Bottom line...go with what you like best..

 

[Allstajacket]

Thanks for all of the recommendations..

Knowing myself, my first definitely won’t be my last. That being said, I wanted to update on what “use” the Rifle would be getting.

1. Plain old target Rifle. I am a member at my local sportsman’s club so I’d be shooting this thing a lot, I hope.

2. Hunting. I would love to take a deer with it!

Right now I’m seriously leaning toward the .50 cal Gemmer Hawken from Investarms. Something about it just catches my eye big time, though I REALLY also would like a Kentucky rifle.

 

[fleener]

I would buy none of the rifles you mentioned. It all depends on how deep your pockets are and what you are willing to spend.

There are a LOT of custom built rifles on the auction sites that IMO are going for a fairly cheap price for what they are.

If I was looking for a rifle, I would most likely be buying one of those.

Or buy one of those that you mentioned and learn to shoot it and learn about perhaps what you like, then buy a better quality rifle. Most of us have done that.

I have two Lymans in my gun safe that I dont use. Sold off my two TC's years ago. Had a Pedersoli or two over the years and they are gone as well. Nothing wrong with starting there.

Fleener

 

[Allstajacket]

I would buy none of the rifles you mentioned. It all depends on how deep your pockets are and what you are willing to spend.

There are a LOT of custom built rifles on the auction sites that IMO are going for a fairly cheap price for what they are.

If I was looking for a rifle, I would most likely be buying one of those.

Or buy one of those that you mentioned and learn to shoot it and learn about perhaps what you like, then buy a better quality rifle. Most of us have done that.

I have two Lymans in my gun safe that I dont use. Sold off my two TC's years ago. Had a Pedersoli or two over the years and they are gone as well. Nothing wrong with starting there.

Fleener

Thanks. As for pockets, let’s just assume I don’t have any LOL. I’m currently on a measly gun shop employee salary, so I’ll definitely be selling something else from the collection to make room for this. I’d LOVE for it to be as close to $500 or below as possible, and for that reason I’m eyeing the Gemmer Hawken from above. Unless the difference going to A Pedersoli Kentucky rifle would be that much different..

 

[Brokennock]

Thanks. As for pockets, let’s just assume I don’t have any LOL. I’m currently on a measly gun shop employee salary, so I’ll definitely be selling something else from the collection to make room for this. I’d LOVE for it to be as close to $500 or below as possible, and for that reason I’m eyeing the Gemmer Hawken from above. Unless the difference going to A Pedersoli Kentucky rifle would be that much different..

Be patient. Save a little more, search a little longer. Your frustration has a dollar value. Cheap flintlock are not worth the frustration. A $500 caplock? Maybe. A $500 flintlock gun with a good lock? Possible with quite a bit of searching, but doubtful.
I've been on a gunshop wage before. And I know the temptations the job can come with. I'm betting there are a few things you've picked up just for "cool factor," that you could part with. If it isn't 99.3% reliable, part with it, put the money in the flintlock fund. If you can "shoot up to it," you should probably part with it unless it has some other personal value to you, put the money in the flintlock fund.

 

[cynthialee]

I'd go with a GPR for an entry flintlock rifle

will serve well at the range and that rifle has bagged plenty of large game

it looks good and it preforms well

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Puts on flame retardant huggies....

I have had one rifle at a time for 50 years, The last production gun I had was $500 from pedersoli , I got it thru Dixie Gun Works, my favorite place in the world. (been there).
I got 8 wonderful shots from it, and the frizzen went down range. It took Dixie 10 months to make another one, because pedersoli does not stock replacement parts.
When my Ex and I went our separate ways, she asked her if could have it. I gave it to her, good riddance.
I never owned another production gun again.
A few years later I contacted Jim Chambers and Muzzleloader supply, looking for a kit no one had, every one I know has Jim Chambers kit gun that are a few decades old.

I decided to work with the gals at Muzzleloader Builder's Supply Home Page
I decided I liked the look of the Sheetz Virginia rifle. John Sheetz - Williams Flintlocks

But I wanted to make it my own. So I built a working mans rifle, nuttin fancy, iron hardware.
https://www.aspenshadeltd.com/inventory_iron.html only one known to man
So I did. It was $800 of the finest parts you could buy back in 2004. I went with a Chambers lock. I have zero regrets.
It has fired each and every time, thru wind and rain.

On trail walks when flatlander's production guns failed, we doubled and tripled up, using my rifle.
2-3 shooters, and my rifle. Had a blast. Many blasts in fact.

You first gun may be a production gun, your last one will be a home made flintlock.
Make the little woman happy and start off with the best. Buy a few pieces at a time.

There is only one like mine, and someday my grandboy will get it. Im not in a hurry, and he is in the sandbox.



Black walnut from Tenn. Crockett double set triggers, and a Chamber Late Ketland lock.
Not fancy just dang good.
Until then, Im having fun, all year round, gonna snow next week, yippeee!

 

[Critter Getter]

My first flintlock was a Pedersoli Frontier .50 caliber. I bought it unfired and have shot maybe 60
balls through it. I have been very pleased with it. Goes bang every time and accuracy seems good. I haven’t shot it for a few years now tho as I have several others to shoot. If you go with a Frontier plan on buying a different ramrod and then you should be happy with your first flinter. Greg

 

[Des52]

Go with the Pedersoli Frontier, I love mine. Never had a misfire and is very accurate. The tip on getting a TOTW ramrod to replace the original is good too.

 

[andy52]

I'd go with a GPR for an entry flintlock rifle

will serve well at the range and that rifle has bagged plenty of large game

it looks good and it preforms well

I just finished a GPR flint kit earlier this year and it did turn out pretty nice. I wouldn't recommend the kit version to anyone that
isn't a good wood and metal worker, to make that kit look good takes a lot of work.

 

[ord sgt]

Here is my $0.02 worth.
My first flintlock was built from parts. I had a general idea of what I wanted so I ordered parts through a small BP shop. When I could afford another piece or part, I would have the shop owner order the parts for me. My only experience with muzzle loaders was from a T/C percussion kit. The rifle was a winter project, something to work on after my day job. I had a book from Chuck Dixon "Building the Muzzle loading rifle".
I somehow got all of the parts to fit with limited tools. I still have the flinter after 40 years. It still works very much good. I did replace the Dixie Gun Works lock with a new L&R lock. Other than that, it is all original.
I don't know your skill level but building your own is satisfying. My first rifle is no award winner but it's mine and it works.