Which first flintlock?

[Loja man]

Grain of salt here. My first flintlock is a Pedersoli 32 Cal Kentucky rifle. The lock needs tuned and it does not consistently fire well. It’s an attractive accurate rifle when it shoots….. Haven’t shot it a whole lot because it’s frustrating not having it go boom every time or nearly every time. But I’m not ready to send the lock off and put another $130 into it to have the lock tuned

 

[M. De Land]

I’m having a very hard time deciding on my first flintlock. Do I buy new? Used? Either way I’m having a hard time looking and figuring it out!

What is the best site for shopping for flintlocks? Some of the ones I’ve been browsing:

Abe’s General Store Co
Dixie Gun Works, Inc
Track of the Wolf
Muzzle-Loaders.com

some models that I’ve been considering:

1: Pedersoli Kentucky Rifle, .50cal
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...110+Pedersoli+Kentucky+Rifle+-+.50+Cal.+Flint
2: Investarm Gemmer Hawken .50cal
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...er-rifle-plains-rifle-50-cal-flintlock-ia3410
3: Pedersoli Frontier .54 (or .50cal)
https://abes-general-store-co.mysho...cts/pedersoli-frontier-rifle-54-cal-flintlock

I originally was set on a Kentucky rifle due to the awesome history, but then I started leaning toward the Investarm Hawken, or Gemmer Hawken. These are a bit more affordable! It does bother me though, that Hawkens weren’t originally flintlocks. So part of me wants to get a more historically true flintlock, then get a cap Hawken down the road.


I’m also looking on this forum for a used rifle, so that maybe I can get a taste If muzzleloading without draining the bank.

what would you get?

I would suggest what ever model you choose make sure it is of quality as nothing leaves a bad taste in first impressions more than a poor performer. A good lock is the heart of any muzzle loader and especially so with flint guns.

 

[Brokennock]

Grain of salt here. My first flintlock is a Pedersoli 32 Cal Kentucky rifle. The lock needs tuned and it does not consistently fire well. It’s an attractive accurate rifle when it shoots….. Haven’t shot it a whole lot because it’s frustrating not having it go boom every time or nearly every time. But I’m not ready to send the lock off and put another $130 into it to have the lock tuned

What does it do when it doesn't fire?
Flash the pan? Not spark, so pan powder doesn't ignite?
What are you using for powder?
What do you clean the gun with and how does it get stored?

 

[Art Caputo]

While the flintlocks you have listed could be tuned to shoot and perform with some level of confidence, I would concur with recommendations to move upscale. Unlike the percussion rifles that fall into the “entry level” category will generally shoot well and perform reliably, this is far less likely without some tinkering with the equivalent flintlocks….if you are lucky. Many viable alternatives have been mentioned in this thread. The quality of the lock and it’s orientation are key factors, and for the relatively minor difference in price, IMO, it is well worth the investment. I learned this the hard many decades ago.

 

[oldwood]

Log Cabin Shop in Ohio would be a good place to check . Last time I was in there they had many guns on the rack. Nice folks , too. Definitely won't mess w/ you........

 

[mmb617]

The OP is talking about buying his first flintlock so my experience might be relevant even though it goes against what most members here will tell him.

I had never owned or even fired a black powder gun till about 7 months ago. The shortage of primers for reloading ammo for my modern guns drove me to try black powder and since even then caps were also hard to find I decided a flintlock would be the right place to start. I had no idea if I'd even like that style of shooting and I don't have a lot of money so I wanted to get in cheap to at least gauge my interest.

I'm glad I didn't know at the time how little regard members here have for Traditions guns as that might have steered me away from the Deerhunter flintlock I bought for $310. Maybe I was just lucky, but that gun has served me very well. Even though I had no experience and thus had to rely on internet research to learn what I needed to know, from the first day at the range the gun performed well, and only got better as I figured out a few things. I now have well over 1k shots through it and it continues to be reliable. Along the way I found that I really liked shooting black powder and dove in with both feet. Now I have 3 other flintlock rifles and one flintlock pistol. I've also branched out into making my own black powder and casting lead balls. I'm at the range as often as possible and my modern guns are probably jealous as they aren't getting much attention these days.

I liked that rifle so much I bought a Trapper pistol next, but I will admit I ran into a problem with it from the start. I could not get a good spark from it and finally changed out the frizzen. That was the problem because it then started working consistently. I have 600 shots through it so far and I've owned it only 6 months, so I shoot it a fair amount. That pistol was $400, so certainly not a high end gun.

Next up was a Hawken rifle. I bought it mainly because my Deerhunter looks more like a modern gun with it's black composite stock and I wanted a rifle with a more traditional appearance. At $535 it was my most expensive flintlock yet but it does look good. However I ran into a similar problem as what I had with the pistol in that it just didn't spark very well. Once again a frizzen change solved the problem. I've now had it 3 months, fired 300+ shots and I'm happy with it.

The OP mentioned wanting a Kentucky rifle, and I also wanted a long gun next, and also wanted to try my hand at building from a kit. I found a Traditions Kentucky rifle kit for $380 so I bought that. I see some things I could have done better as it was my first kit gun, but overall it looks good and shoots good without needing a frizzen change. I just got it a month ago so I haven't shot it too much yet but if there was going to be a spark problem it would have shown up by now.

My most recent flintlock purchase was a Mountain rifle. At $600 it's the most expensive I've bought so far and I've only had it to the range twice but I don't see any indication of problems with it. With it's brown CeraKote barrel, trigger guard and butt plate with silver accents it's a looker, at least to me.

In summary I would like to point out that I now have 5 Traditions flintlocks and all of them work well in my opinion. I did have to change the frizzen in two of them but that's a $25 part and easy to change out. I think some of the Traditions frizzens aren't properly hardened, so it's kind of a crapshoot on that score, but the firearms themselves are quite reasonably priced. There is certainly nothing wrong with buying at the high end if that's feasible, but don't write off a cheaper gun as a starter. I'd say chances are high that your first flintlock won't be your last.

If I'd have waited and saved up to buy a much more expensive gun before I even got started I'd have already missed a lot of fun I had shooting my muzzleloaders this summer. For those on a tight budget I say go for it with what you can afford now. You can always buy something better later. If I wanted a gun that I was absolutely certain would fire every single time I pulled the trigger I would have just stayed with my modern guns. Maybe it's just me but I find figuring out what went wrong and what to do about it when I have a misfire is part of the enjoyment in this hobby.

 

[Mike in FL]

A man's first flint lock ought to be a production gun. Appreciation for quality won't come until after you have shot and cared for a not-so-expensive rifle. Time with one will tell you if you are passionate or just a visitor.
Then, go with TVM. Jack Garner produces guns suitable for 200 years ago for less. Money than you might think. Get a poor boy. Not such a large investment but still the best longrifle you can get today. Spend time with it, love it, learn it, name it.
Having accomplished that with free help from this site, you will have become an old iron horse patron who shares his knowledge and deserves a place in public history. Your first year should be probably the most enjoyable of your life and a possible's bag full of humility. May God bless you in this most rewarding journey and make tender your family's hearts to travel with you. Those in your life who might otherwise miss that which you have chosen to keep the nation's deepest spirit alive. That is what our remembered and practiced methods of survival are about.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Be aware that Jack Garner's TVM (Tennessee Valley Manufacturing) is a different TVM (Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading) that Jack sold to Matt Avance. I have a Jack Garner American Fowler that I bought a couple of weeks before the ownership changed. Both companies sell good rifles that are representative but not actual copies of rifles built 200 years ago. These are semi-custom guns that are built mostly to preset dimensions, although some customization can take place with respect to stock wood, barrel choices, length of pull, locks and triggers. You can expect that there will be a wait time.

 

[burlesontom]

I am sort of in the same boat as the OP and have considered the same guns as he. The Investarms guns used to have a good reputation as decent flintlock rifles. I have 4 of their caplock rifles and am happy with them for what they are and for what paid for them.

I have also owned a couple of Pedersoli rifles and those were also good guns. But none were flinters. The rifle I have had my eyes on is one of the Pedersoli Kentucky rifles in .45 from Dixie Gun Works. Its at the upper end of what I am willing to spend.

I would love a custom gun but am not sure I want to spend the bucks on one. At least not until I have tried FL shooting first. I see custom guns for sale on gunbroker but am hesitant to buy a gun I can't look at in person.

I wish there were BP shows like some of you guys have further up north. That would be great to be able to handle a gun first.

 

[burlesontom]

OP there is a poster here named "Black Powder Maniac Shooter" who makes you tube videos and he guns are Pedersoli's and a Lyman Great Plains Rifle. All flintlocks and he seems to do well with them. IIRC he said he wore out the lock on one of his Pedersoli rifles. Thats doing a lot of shooting.


I believe you can get replacement locks of higher quality that will drop in and fit. I know you can for the Investarms guns and I bet you can for the Pedersoli guns as well. Find a rifle you like and shoot it until you wear it out and just upgrade the lock.

L&R makes replacement locks for Lyman/Cabelas, Traditions/CVA and Thompson Center. And I bet thyey have locks that with just a little fitting will work in a Pedersoli rifle. They run a little over $200 for the flint versions.

 

[granth]

My first flintlock was a Traditions Mountain Rifle kit. That gun is very reliable and accurate! You can also pick it up assembled for about 50 bucks more on Dixie Gun Works.

Traditions Mountain Rifle (Flint)

 

[TDM]

When I bought my first flintlock, a Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle, I took the lock off and it was like a dog watching TV. Even though I've shot caps since the early 80's. Point is, now with 5 flintlocks, I've had to learn to tune each to one degree or another. Do your research, ask questions, and take your time. Being able to disassemble and polish what's needed really isn't that difficult. And you'll become much better acquainted with your weapon.

 

[ryoung14]

If you are going down the Historically Correct rabbit hole, it's going to get expensive rather quickly. However, a simple flintlock from Lyman (if you can still find one), Traditions, or Investarms should be enough to tell you whether flintlocks are for you.

I have several Lyman rifles and they're good shooters and reliable. My only flintlock is a Lyman and I'm still learning how to feed and care for it. But there's a ways to go. Don't let anyone fool you. There's a learning curve with any flintlock...even the expensive ones. They're not as foolproof as percussion. BTW the Lyman guns were made by Investarms until recently.

Traditions is a make I always shied away from. But based on mmb617's posts, they may deserve a second look. He has certainly had good luck with them.

Investarms made the Lyman and Cabelas guns and I have both...in percussion. They're good solid shooters and well made. Investarms appears to be marketing guns under its own name thru muzzle-loaders.com. The models they list all track with what was previously sold as Lymans. I expect they're very similar.

Any of these should give you a taste of flintlock muzzleloading without breaking the bank. Just be advised that any flinter will require a certain amount of futzing and tinkering to get it performing to its potential. In return you get to learn what a flintlock likes, what it tolerates, and what it doesn't tolerate.

 

[Bushfire]

For what it's worth, this guy only visited the forum over a 3 week period and hasn't been back for 9 months. Thread may benefit others though.