White mountain crack

[bat119]

I found a crack in my stock is this typically where this stock fails? I have read these stocks are notorious for splitting I plan to thread the front screw into the trigger guard eventually gathering materials in my area has proven difficult at this time.

I opted to install some brass pins and bedding material for now,

A few questions about the bolt upgrade does the front hole go through the trigger guard or is it a blind hole, when drilling the hole through the stock is this done with the stock attached? Any suggestions will be appreciated I need to save this stock finding a replacement might not be possible

 

[chorizo]

First off, relieve the screw hole to the lock. It should be significantly bigger than the screw itself.

The hole goes through and through front and back screw holes in tang.. Get oval head 10/32 machine screws off amazon 2" to 2 1/2 " Grind to length. Those holes need to be relieved also..

Drill through until it makes a mark on the trigger. Remove and drill and tap. #21 drill bit and 10/32 taper tap and bottoming tap to finish the thread through.

Read this thread

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/tc-white-mountain-carbine.123105/
And this one:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/tc-white-mountain-carbine.155939/

 

[chorizo]

And this one:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...-by-mr-hoyt-in-wmc-stock.158415/#post-2251587

 

[Crows-R-US]

Besides recoil from hot loads and big bullets, another contributor to cracks in these stocks is caused by over-tightening of the lock bolt. So when you get your repairs made and go to re-assemble the gun the lock bolt only needs to be tightened just a smidge past finger-tight.

 

[64Springer]

I would drill for a wooden plug/bushing and glue it place to join the upper and lower half of the crack.

Make the bushing slightly small than the lock plate washer diameter.

Drill through the plug/bushing to allow clearance for the lock bolt.

 

[Dale Lilly]

I have a CVA Mountain pistol that has very small double cracks through the lock plate bolt hole. It shoots fine but I have several so I think I will let someone else fiddle with it. Polecat [edit: 64springer has the right idea.]

 

[vintovka]

Seems a common flaw on many TC's regardless of model or caliber. OP has fixed his well and might be a preventative measure for others.

 

[bat119]

I did the upgrade on the front screw like the factory, bedded, pinned should be good to go, I have some 300 gr, XTP sabots to try in the spring only a month or so away. Has a bit of Canadian in it now only screw I could find was a Robertson head.

Thanks for all the suggestions, the plug under the lock screw cover is a good one I'll remember that for future use

 

[Eric Krewson]

I had a TC stock starting to crack at the lock bolt, the crack was internal in the lock mortise. I cut out the cracked wood and glued in new wood, I also drilled out the lock bolt hole and glued in a piece of a hickory ramrod to prevent the lock bolt from causing another crack. You can see the replaced wood to the rear of the hickory dowel.

To mark the hole location on the hickory dowel I sharpened the point on this screw, it had the same threads as the lock bolt, I retracted it, put the lock in the inlet and screwed the screw in until it left a pilot hole on the dowel where I needed to drill the new lock bolt hole.

The next thing I did was to replace the stripped-out tang screws with tang bolts, I installed brass bushings in the trigger inlet to thread these bolts into. This wasn't an easy job. I drilled out the stripped tang screw holes and glued in hickory dowels to further reinforce the wrist.

Hickory dowels in place, I stained the rear dowel so it wouldn't be so obvious, I haven't stained the front dowel yet.

New bolts.

 

[chorizo]

Most excellent rehab work. It takes patience, fine motor skills and a knowledge of why it cracks in the first place to repair things right.

I also have used, in addition to the style above, very low viscosity glue that seeps into the crack and then clamp. I apply it several times afterwards until the crack is filled completely. But that just stops the crack, you have to do the other things to keep it from cracking again.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Here is a picture of the wood patch that I glued in before I dressed it down to match the rest of the lock inlet.

 

[chorizo]

Besides recoil from hot loads and big bullets, another contributor to cracks in these stocks is caused by over-tightening of the lock bolt. So when you get your repairs made and go to re-assemble the gun the lock bolt only needs to be tightened just a smidge past finger-tight.

Could you please explain the how and why and the mechanics behind the overtightened bolt causing a lateral crack in the stock.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I have three T/C guns with similar cracks. One of them eventually caused the stock to break in half and has since been repaired. The other two are relatively stable, but I plan to do some repair work this summer that might include stabilizing pins, epoxy, stripping, staining with ebony oil stain and a polyurethane finish. Much as I like boiled linseed oil, more modern finishes offer much better protection from the weather.

 

[chorizo]

I have three T/C guns with similar cracks.

Screws vice through bolts in the tang and unrelieved hole in lock bolt are basic design flaws. Also poor selection of wood grain flow for the stocks. Best bet is to do the reinforcing as preventative measures before the crack. Eric looks like a master at this and I try to follow his methodology as best I can with my obviously much more limited skill set.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Screws vice through bolts in the tang and unrelieved hole in lock bolt are basic design flaws. Also poor selection of wood grain flow for the stocks. Best bet is to do the reinforcing as preventative measures before the crack. But Eric looks like a master at this and I try to follow his methodology as best I can with my obviously much more limited skill set.

The most irritating thing is that I bought all these guns used with the crack already present. None of the other guns seems to have this problem. The Seneca has a warped lock plate so in order to get the lock working right, you have to really crank down on the lock bolt. That is probably what caused that crack.

Now how a lock plate got warped in the first place is another question. One of the other things I may do is bend the lock plate in a vise with wooden jaws.

 

[chorizo]

The Seneca has a warped lock plate so in order to get the lock working right, you have to really crank down on the lock bolt. That is probably what caused that crack.

I just don't see how that happens. I remain unconvinced because I can't wrap my head around how that causes a crack. An unrelieved bolt hole allowing the bolt to bang up against the wood, yes, but a tightened bolt? I am leaning towards just another thing that is oft repeated by others yet has never been validated or explained.

You would have to crank down on that lock plate way beyond the realm of possible to compress the wood so much that you get a lateral crack.

Help me see the light, if there really is light to shine on the subject. How, why and the mechanics, please.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I just don't see how that happens. I remain unconvinced because I can't wrap my head around how that causes a crack. An unrelieved bolt hole allowing the bolt to bang up against the wood, yes, but a tightened bolt? I am leaning towards just another thing that is oft repeated by others yet has never been validated or explained.

You would have to crank down on that lock plate way beyond the realm of possible to compress the wood so much that you get a lateral crack.

Help me see the light, if there really is light to shine on the subject. How, why and the mechanics, please.

No idea how it happens... or even if it happens at all. Below are two photographs, the first one is the Seneca. You can see how the stock is compressed by the tension on the stock bolt. I could see that potentially cracking the stock.

The second image is the White Mountain Carbine... the more modern one that supposedly corrected the stock cracking issue. No idea what caused this crack, not even a clue. I'm not especially worried about either crack causing the stock to fail, but they are there and that irritates me.

I have had a few other guns that have cracks in them that are not muzzleloaders. Some crack, some don't.

 

[chorizo]

The first one, I can see it happening from over compression of the washer itself. It appears to have caused the crack by being the wedge against the wood during recoil....poor design. The second one, especially where the crack is, was cause by the lock through bolt banging up against the wood. If the through bolt hole had been relieved it would had never touched the wood and would not have caused the crack.

Maybe the Seneca design where the washer fits into a hole is the basis for the story of over tightened lock bolts. You have definitely over compressed the bolt by the dimple it cause shown in the picture

Get some low viscosity glue to put into the cracks. it will prevent further degradation. Apply it from hidden areas...it will run the length of the crack.

https://smile.amazon.com/Starbond-C...d=1676475519&sprefix=low+visco,aps,155&sr=8-4

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

The first one, I can see it happening from overcompression...the washer itself caused the crack it appears to me by being the wedge against the wood during recoil....poor design. The second one, especially where the crack is, was cause by the lock through bolt banging up against the wood. If the through bolt hole had been relieved it would had never touched the wood and would not have cause the crack.

Maybe the Seneca design where the washer fits into a hole is the basis for the story of over tightened lock bolts.

Well, I got a drill press and a Dremmel, so might be there will be a little stock relieving happening in a few months when I start those repairs. Glad I only have two guns to repair.

 

[chorizo]

Relieve the lock through bolt hole with an oversized hole on the WMC. You can do that with the lock removed and a hand drill.