Whitworth, Pedersoli and Navy Arms

[52Bore]

TFoley:
Thanks for your reply. It only confined my 1st suspicion about your post to the EXACT date of Val Sr death.
That post of yours was only to discredit someone else.

 

[Whitworth]

Interesting stuff indeed. Did you removed the barrel from the stock in order to see the Italian proof marks/stamps? Looks like you have a Parker-Hale-made but non-British-proofed barrel that WAS proofed in Italy subsequently when it was made into a firing firearm by whoever did it - in accordance with the CIP regulations. The serial number alone is some 20,000 AFTER the last British-made and Birmingham-proofed 'genuine' Parker-Hale barrel. It should also have a stamp '95gr black powder' or similar - I misremember the exact wording to tell the truth. The Birmingham proof marks and the maximum load stamps would both be concealed under the wood on the left-hand side of the barrel near the breech, or slightly underneath.

I did remove the barrel revealing the Italian proofing but no powder or bullet weight info like on the bottom of my P-H 2 Bander. I was surprised to find the stock was one piece and not jointed as I have seen pictured on some Parker Hale Whitworth and Volunteer rifles. Took a 4 foot blank of nice walnut to make the stock on my rifle which displays lots of flame in the grain. It's much nicer wood than on my P-H 2 bander. Guess I got lucky and got a good Spaghetti Parker-Hale

 

[Whitworth]

Well it looks like I'm going to settle my curiosity in a couple of days. I ordered one from Dixie marked as to their advertisement " Parker Hale " on the barrel along with " Navy Arms " behind the rear sight, Item# PR1370. Advertisement also states " Made by Pedersoli " I'll provide details if there is any interest as to what I received. As a final note, I have followed many of you over the years on the internet and have great respect for your writings and advise. Thank you to all that responded to my question

Yes, I would like to know you really get as I was somewhat puzzled by both listings and was about to order something when the one I got popped up on a website I was watching. I did get the Pedersoli hex bullet mold and hex wads from DGW. I have ordered a hex wad punch from Peter Dyson in England to try different wads.

 

[TFoley]

Yes, I would like to know you really get as I was somewhat puzzled by both listings and was about to order something when the one I got popped up on a website I was watching. I did get the Pedersoli hex bullet mold and hex wads from DGW. I have ordered a hex wad punch from Peter Dyson in England to try different wads.

You might care to try thin cardboard wads - used by a lot of folks here in the MLAGB instead of greased felt. The ideal stuff is the shiny-sided stiffening that you find used in spiffy shirt packaging - one or two of them seems to do the biz. I no longer have my P-H Whitworth serial #888 but shot it with a deal of success at the shorter ranges - 600 and down to 400 - with Joe Polisar's swaged bullets and 80gr of FFg. The only thing I ever did to the rifle was instantly replace the P-H nipple with a platinum-lined item from Peter Dyson. At the time the cost was wince-inducing, and they haven't gotten any less pricey, but you'll probably only ever need one.

If you care to email/pm me, I'll send you a copy of the Polisars' loading and shooting methods - they really do work but do not make for rapid-fire shooting. Mr Minshall notes that you are practically cleaning the gun for every shot - this is not an exaggeration.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi and good will to you all!
I have had Pedersoli and Parker Hale ( Birmingham ) guns on and off through the years.
Pedersoli make fine guns, fit and finish are very good, BUT original Parker Hale rifles are without fault.
Fortunately you can still buy an untouched, unfired Parker Hale rifle, if you look.
There are still new/old Parker Hale rifles coming out of collections, so the prudent buyer can still get a very fine to excellent Parker Hale.
If you can't wait, well, you can buy the second to best Pedersoli. Their quality control is without question, and they back up their product.
The only difference is, the purist will find markings on the Pedersoli that differ it from an original Parker Hale.
Which will group better on the range, well fellows that challenge is still going on at the range as we read these worthless words.
If I had a chance to buy either, the original ( 1970's to 1980's ) Parker Hale would win out.
It is hard to do, but if you ever have the opportunity to compare an original 1850-1860 new condition Parker Hale to a new ( 1970's- 1980's ) reproduction, you will see the newer ones are better ( if that is possible ! )
Needless to say, if we take our prized rifle to the range and shoot them with the utmost care, no matter how much we guard them from damage and wear will happen.
If you have a true Parker Hale, you have a piece of history in your hands.
If ( way too many "IF's " in this discussion ) you put your ear to the lock of a Parker Hale and pull back the hammer, and then put your ear to a ' Brand X " ( some other import ) you WILL hear/ see the difference.
Matter of fact there is an "ORIGINAL" new manufactured 1861 Parker Hale musketoon for sale in the classified section here.
I have no part or involvement in this sale. It is only by chance that we have this discussion going and this particular gun comes up for sale.
Fred

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Dear 52bore,I know what U S A means and Also M L A I C as I have 15 of their medals but what is the Distinguished bit?? Please lets not get into a slanging match. even about the Late Val Forgett Snr. OLD DOG

 

[52Bore]

Dear 52bore,I know what U S A means and Also M L A I C as I have 15 of their medals but what is the Distinguished bit?? Please lets not get into a slanging match. even about the Late Val Forgett Snr. OLD DOG

You have 15 MLAIC medals and don’t know what the MLAIC Distinguished Award is given for? lol

 

[Zonie]

Let's get back to discussing the Whitworth before I start deleting off topic comments.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

Sorry Zonie.My comments were intended to try to de-escalate a spat that appeared to be developing Trans-Pond--ERR!! Much of the Old knowledge in UK has been lost owing to Deaths and some forced Isolations. Of the two Hammer rifling M/Cs from P/H One appeared to remain in UK. The tale says that it was not set up. I have no knowledge if it is still here. May be Research Press's David can tell us. OLDDOG..

 

[Kno-ie]

The Whitworth I ordered from Dixie arrived today. As 52 bore stated, this was produced by Pedersoli with Pedersoli markings on it. On the right, side above the lock is the Navy Arms stamp. In front of the rear sight is the Parker Hale stamp. Behind the rear sight is the Whitworth stamp. Left side has the Pedersoli stamps. Below the rear sight near the breech plug is the bore size. Date produce appears to be 2018. Stock in my opinion is very well made with very good metal to wood finish. Stock has a slight red tinge to it, made out what appears to be walnut. Finish on the wood looks to be a satin oil finish unlike the glossy finish on Volunteer rifle Pedersoli produces. Lock, hammer and barrel bands are case harden. Bluing is good with a couple of areas that a little thin. This maybe disieving do to the thick packing grease on all the metal parts which is difficult to wipe off without a degreaser. This rifle in all appearance looks like what I remember the Whitworths of the 1970-80's looked like. If it shoots as good as it looks I am going to be every happy. As a side note, before posting my original question to the forum I had sent a e-mail to Dixie with questions I posted here. Not more than ten minutes before the big brown tuck arrived Dixie responded to my e-mail noting their inventory of this rifle is 2018. Thanks to all and your input. Kno-ie

 

[Whitworth]

Thanks for the update. That's the Navy Arms marked model I tried to buy from nearby Navy Arms but was told they didn't have them anymore Dixie must have all the stock now. Did your rifle come with any accessories? Thanks.

 

[Whitworth]

I have had Pedersoli and Parker Hale ( Birmingham ) guns on and off through the years.
If ( way too many "IF's " in this discussion ) you put your ear to the lock of a Parker Hale and pull back the hammer, and then put your ear to a ' Brand X " ( some other import ) you WILL hear/ see the difference.
Fred

Never noticed just how nicely the P-H (#21xx) clicks. Well I took the challenge and must say my Parker Hale lock clicks like a Snap-On ratchet while my Franken Hale does sound like a Craftsman. Little louder but works as just as well.

 

[Kno-ie]

Whitworth, answer is no, nothing. After degreasing the barrel and parts, the bluing on the barrel is excellent. Barrel channel needs some work.

 

[jimairwin]

Looking for some information on the two modern built brands. I've seen advertisement on both brand names but I'm confused as to who the manufacture is. I've advertisement to the effect that both are made by Pedersoli. Is there a quality difference?. Last I heard Navy Arms was no longer in operation. Thanks

Kind of an old thread, but here goes anyways.

I'm a Whitworth nut. I have a cannon I made from a 40mm Bofors AA gun barrel back in 1966 using the best pics I could get then. Have won some matches with it! Looks right externally, but not in the bore.
Now I want to make a smaller scale model using a piece of a 45 cal WW barrel. Finding one is, so far, impossible.

 

[TFoley]

'Finding one is, so far, impossible.'

YOU said it.

 

[Whitworth]

Whitworth, answer is no, nothing. After degreasing the barrel and parts, the bluing on the barrel is excellent. Barrel channel needs some work.

Is your rear sight blade windage adjustable. As far as i have learned the Parker -Hale and EuroArms Whitworths came with with two spare sight blades, these numbered 1, 2 and 3. These differing in notch height to allowed for some elevation adjusting with the factory sights to suit the shooter. Mine wears a #2, numbers 1 and 3 missing some where along the line since 1999. I know the real Parker -Hales came with a lot of nice accessories besides a couple of blades.

 

[Enfield58]

Is your rear sight blade windage adjustable. As far as i have learned the Parker -Hale and EuroArms Whitworths came with with two spare sight blades, these numbered 1, 2 and 3. These differing in notch height to allowed for some elevation adjusting with the factory sights to suit the shooter. Mine wears a #2, numbers 1 and 3 missing some where along the line since 1999. I know the real Parker -Hales came with a lot of nice accessories besides a couple of blades.

I bought a P-H Whitworth in 1986. It came with a couple of extra sight blades, nipple wrench, extra nipple, bullet mold, bullet sizer and wad cutter.

The rear sight blade is windage adjustable.

I'm kicking myself in the butt for not buying their Volunteer rifle and a few of their Enfields at the time.

I've had a lot of offers to sell my Whitworth, despite being used. I've taken a lot of deer with it. There are a lot of memories packed in that rifle and it won't be sold.

I've also held off on putting a tang sight on it, hoping that someone will come out with a decent replica of the Davidson scope and mount.

 

[Kno-ie]

Whitworth, no it's a typical Enfield rear sight for that period. Made a wad punch out of a 7/16 socket today. Working on a sizing die, files and patients.