Wht no sights on muskets?

[pepperbelly]

I was thinking about this replica of a 1777 French musket I have. It has no rear sight, and what passes for a front sight isn't really a sight blade.
Why? There are rifles from that era that have front sight blades and rear sights. Why were sights omitted from muskets?
I understand that volley fire was the normal infantry tactic used, but I don't understand why sights were deemed unnecessary.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[mike alexandre]

My reading of this is that soldiers werent trained to "aim" as we understand it. Therefore there was no need for sights - it was a matter of pointing the musket in the general direction. There was no "target practise" just a bit of training it getting the gun to go off. Also the bayonnet which was still very much in use would have needed a strong wide lug to locate on as opposed to a usefull front sight. The Baker rifle was the first miliary piece to incorporate a front sight and bayonnet lug I think and also the first gun that the British Army trained soldiers to aim with.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Although some might argue that soldiers were instructed to "take aim", a musket was not intended to be aimed like a rifle. It was intended to be fired along with other muskets in a cloud of punkin balls to the enemy.

 

[Many Klatch]

In the drill that soldiers were taught there were sometimes dozens of commands and specific movements that they learned. Such as open the pan, prime the pan, close the pan etcetera. The ones that I find interesting were Present, Fire! Nothing in there about aim. Aiming took too long and it was all about getting off 3 or 4 shots a minute. With 1,000 muskets pointed generally in the same direction and firing 4 times a minute, that makes for a lot of damage somewhere.

Many Klatch

 

[faw3]

Was reading last night Napolian thought about getting rifles (sight's ect) and his thought was when 10,000 guys fire at once it dont matter where as ong as its at the guys about to shoot you. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Elnathan]

The best explanation I have run across is in Donald Grave's Red Coates and Grey Jackets, in which he states that "the regiment became the weapon, not the individual musket, and the commander directed his fire as he saw fit." (page 49) It was sort of the firearms equivalent of a Classical Greek phalanx, I guess.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

The Model 1776 Ferguson rifle and the Model 1776 Tower rifle both had a full set of sights which had a leaf sight for extended ranges. The Ferguson had a bayonet lug as well as the front sight. The Tower rifle had no bayonet.
Both rifles pre dated the Baker. :v

 

[Coot]

The issue musket, with issue ammunition and in the hands of infantrymen not trained as marksmen was not very accurate. The guiding principal was a high volume of fire at a large (say company sized or bigger group of men, not an individual soldier) target. Taking time to aim would not necessarily produce more hits but would slow the rate of fire. Standing up and facing a shooting or charging enemy took a lot of nerve. Hard enough to remember to reload properly (thus the 'by the numbers' drill) much less to calmly & steadily aim. Least you feel that the soldiers were undertrained, keep in mind that few sailors could swim and few were instructed in the use of a cutlass. You might enjoy "Warfare in the 18th Century" by Jeremy Black (London 1999).

 

[mike alexandre]

Was reading last night Napolian thought about getting rifles (sight's ect) and his thought was when 10,000 guys fire at once it dont matter where as ong as its at the guys about to shoot you. Fred :hatsoff:

Thats one of the reasons he lost at Waterloo.

 

[Bryanbrown]

Well, 18th century period soldiers were trained to "aim" and regularly practiced firing at "marks" "a hand wide board" (generally 4-6 inches) painted white with the top painted black into a square.

But keep in mind these are for man sized targets not small game. With the volume of fire some light infantry tactics used a narrow rifle type blade is lost in heat distortion after 10 or 15 rounds. And is more useful as a locking lug for the bayonet, if you heft a military musket you will generally find it quite muzzleheavy compared to a fowler or Fusil. The Long Land Pattern Bess has been described as a "transport mechanism for a bayonet" versus a firearm. You probably wouldn't want to try birding with a Bess, but it will not have a problem hitting a 8 inch target at 75 yards with patched ball. And you REALLY dont want to be on the recieving end of a fixed bayonet

With cartridge and paper wrapped ball 20 inches at 75 yards is pretty easy and with the right ball, wax, paper combo under 10 inch target is common. I use newsprint from movers (you can often get it free in busted bundles) 695 ball, and parafin wax. With 110gr of 2F.

Not sniper or widow maker accurate but for man sizes targets even in cover (Light Infantry) they meet the needs of the troops.

Bryan K. Brown
Hesse Kassel Jaeger Korps[url] www.jaegerkorps.org[/url][url] www.gunsmithy.com[/url]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Alle künst ist umsunst wenn ein Engle auf dem Zundlocke brünst.

 

[mike alexandre]

Well, 18th century period soldiers were trained to "aim" and regularly practiced firing at "marks" "a hand wide board" (generally 4-6 inches) painted white with the top painted black into a square.

Thats a very broad statement. I dont think you'll find it was "all soldiers" and certainly not "all armies".

 

[Bryanbrown]

I confess I was speaking specifically to the Brown Bess and the Crown forces in the 18th century with those references. However, while I don't claim to have documentation for similar practices with "all armies" I do have similar evidence for English ( Journals of Ferguson, Howe, Simon Frasier, James Frasier), French ( La Joluceur, Marqui du Bontram, James Butler), Hessian (Reglement 1747 Reglement 1757), Prussian , Bavarian, Brauschweiger, Schweiss (Swiss) and Spanish armies ( records of the Castillo De San Marcos St Augustine Fl).

But I'll concede it is possible the generalization may not be true of "all armies".

Thanks

Bryan K. Brown
Hesse Kassel Jaeger Korps[url] www.jaegerkorps.org[/url][url] www.gunsmithy.com[/url]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Alle künst ist umsunst wenn ein Engle auf dem Zundlocke brünst.