Why Flint ?

[Spot Shooter]

Ok fellers,

I'm thinkin' about makin' my some a smoke pole so we can both get yelled at for spend'n too much time at the range. I'm also think'n 'bout both of us build'n our riflegun's at the same time.

That's when somethin' hit me - so what's flint all about?
Sounds like a simple question, but I ain't figuired that one jest yet. I use my riflegun's fer hunt'n so when ya answer please put it in that stead. I'm jest courious about if I'd like it or not. How dependable is it, how skilled do you have to be to set the stuff up right.

Spot

 

[musketman]

How dependable is it, how skilled do you have to be to set the stuff up right. Spot

As with anything, be it percussion, match lock or catapults, it can be as easy or as hard as you make it...

Percussion guns have to stay dry in the priming area too, the same thing will apply to flint guns...

There is some added attention needed for the flint guns, like making sure the flint is somewhat sharp (knapping), keeping the powder dry, getting use to the "WHOOSH" of powder on the outside of the lock when you shoot it and other minor things...

After a bit, all of that will become second nature and you'll think nothing of it...

I do have a flint shooting bag and a percussion shooting bag, some of the tools are different for each...

The flintlock loads exactly like your percussions, until you get to the priming stage, other than that, you'll notice nothing different...

Instead of a capper and caps and nipple wrenches, you'll need a priming horn/flask and spare flints, a good flint will last 50+ shots, unlike the one time use of a percussion cap, a screwdriver to tighten flints in the jaws of the hammer, a vent pick (bare wire)...

Once you own and shoot one, you'll want another, you'll see...

There is very little ot NO delay in the ignition of the two types of systems, flints can be just as fast as a percussion and I think (my own opinion), flintlocks are more fun to shoot...

Have you ever shot one?

If not, find someone who owns one and see if they will let you take a few shots with it, just in case you don't like it, that will save you some money down the road...

 

[Birddog6]

If the lock is fast & tuned, you will never or hear the "Whoosh" of the powder, all you will hear is a "Tick-bang & see smoke out the end of the barrel. If you concentrate on the target, you will not notice the flash of the pan either.

Anyone can shoot a percussion, not all can shoot a flintlock. Forget it is a flintlock when you shoot it & just concentrate on the target & keep you head down & follow thru. You will love it ! Some fellers get hung up on the flash & watch the pan rather than the target. Forget the pan, it will do its thing without you a watchin it.

The only thing better to shoot than a Flintlock, is bout 10 of them !!

The only people I have seen that didn't like flintlocks & went back to percussions, was because they had lousy ignition & lousy locks & didn't want to take the time to lear how they tick & what works & what don't. Just like anything else, there is a right way & a wrong way of doing things & you have to learn & adjust. It is not rocket science & is only as hard as you make it. It does take a lil practice & perfection to get one reliable, but they Are reliable once you learn your part.

But if you really like tinkering with ML's & and like perfection, the flintlock is something fun to master & allot of fun & possibly what you need.

I have been shooting ML's for over 30 years & about 15 years ago I shot a flintlock, & have never been the same since. I sold all my percussions except the first one I made back in the 70's and have had flintlocks ever since & all I build now are flintlocks. I find them fun, fast, challenging, and for me they are more reliable & easier to do consistant shooting with than a percussion.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Knives

 

[TwoShadows]

I personally feel flint is more reliable. The channel for fire to run from the cap to the powder is sometimes at a 90 degree angle....the hole in the percusion cap is mighty small...and while I'm sure caps have improved a lot over the last 35 years, I was never sure it wouldn't just "pop" and not set off the charge.
The distance from the flint pan to the powder is short and straight. I can readily see if my priming is damp or needs replacing. Emptying the pan and re-priming with fresh powder is quiet and requires little effort when hunting...and I feel that is a great advantage.
I agree that with the above answers when they say the flintlock takes a bit of TLC insofar as correct installation of the flint and keeping it sharp....wiping the frizzen and flint after each shot etc. They are telling you right when saying that a well tuned flinter is as fast as a percussion. I would add that a key word is quality when buying a flint lock. Poorly made flint locks have turned away many a good shooter. Learning that the priming powder should never cover the touchole is a must for fast ignition. The challenge of doing everything right and making the shot is what blackpowder shooting is all about to me. I find no pleasure in using substitute powders...shotgun primers...telescopes..and elongated plastic shrouded projectiles. That type of exercise is reserved for my "modern" cartridge weapons (Sharps..Rolling block...etc.). I understand that there is a time and place and circumstance where folks might need to go the inline route, but it is not for me. At the risk of offending fellow shooters I must say the I can't see how using the abovementioned scoped,shotgun primered, substitute powdered weapons can be considered a "black powder" season hunting firearm. Then again I never could understand how a fellow could get himself a black leather jacket...multiple tattoo's and call his Honda Goldwing a "hawg" either. I suppose I am just an old opinionated dinosaur trapped in the wrong century.

 

[roundball]

Looks like the reasons have been pretty well covered above...all I can add is that I've been into muzzleloading since the late 80's and enjoyed several calibers of percussions, but nothing has bitten me like flintlocks have since I picked up my first used TC Hawken Flintlock two years ago this month.

I've used all sorts of rifles/scopes, handguns, & shotguns in shooting sports & hunting going on 50 years overall, and can honestly say these past two years with flintlocks has been the most enjoyable, rewarding shooting experience so far.

And if you like Deer hunting like I do, you'll appreciate this...when I took my first Deer with a flintlock, I looked down at the rifle in my hands with smoke curling out of the vent hole, and thought..."this is how they did it back then..."...sort of felt a connection to the past if that doesn't sound too corny...and filled all my Deer tags last year with Flintlocks.

I enjoy flintlocks so much that I shoot every weekend I can year round except during hunting season, and now it's always flintlocks...sold off most of my percussions because I just don't use them any more.

There are a few good introductory books available now and several excellent articles on the Internet...I'll be glad to Email the list of URL's if you want them

 

[musketman]

It is not rocket science

No, it's ROCK science... :haha: :haha: :haha:

Haaaaaaaaaa Ha Ha, I love that joke...
Hee hee hee "ahem" ::

 

[Ohio Joe]

I would have to agree with all that has been said here. You might also consider that one day, your state or all states will require the use of, "flintlocks only", for their primitive muzzle loading season... At last look, I believe that, Pennsylvania is that way? If this were to take place, you would be a'head of the game... Once mastered they are a joy to shoot, and fun to shoot just getting there.

 

[Spot Shooter]

Wow great information, thanks to all of you.

I am getting pretty interested in trying a flinter. It seems anti-climatic to simply place a cap over the nipple after measuring and dumping powder, lub'n a patch and start'n a ball, then cutt'n the excess and ramm'n her home. hmmm.... I'm wondering if the GPR flinter is put together with good parts (the lock that is).

God know's I love shootin' my GPR, this may end up being my summer project, but I'll most likely put it off until next spring.

I guess I need to start read'n the flint forum now. If you'all's got more infermation I should be considren' jest post away.

Thanks,
Spot

 

[2172]

Spotshooter, bought a Lyman Deerstalker last Oct, and the GPR in Dec. both lefthanded flinters. the Deerstalker took a little polishing for a burr, and a tiny bit off the sear spring...lock is a pleasure now. The GPR was great until a week or two ago, when I began having problems with the hammer falling to halfcock if I used the set trigger and the hunting trigger, but falling all the way if I used just the front, hunting trigger. Went online here to ask for advice, got a lot of good stuff. The cure has been making sure the fly was really clean, and close to being dry, lessening the sear spring a little bit, and keeping the rifle in the same atmospheric conditions...I'd let it sit in my garage for a few weeks, and have now moved it back to the wall rack where it usually lives....the lock is similar to the T/C lock in design, suspect it is not quite as well made...the whole gun as a flinter is well worth the money. Outside of my fixin' the problem, all I've done is install a plain capbox...Best, Hank

 

[swquiro]

Once you own and shoot one, you'll want another, you'll see...


AIN'T that the truth?

 

[riarcher]

From a fellow hunter's standpoint?
All the above is great tech. stuff and I'm sure important. However, from anouther perspective. I hunt, and I hunt a lot. Deer, fox, rabbit, squirrel, yotes, pheasant, duck, geese, dove and an assortment of varmits. Most my hunting is in and around swamps and a 50 - 75 yd. shot is pretty far to see most of the time. I'd like one gun to do it all and have decided on a .75 cal. smoothbore musket. By selecting either (or combinations of) roundball, lead shot, or bismouth I'm legal for anything with the same gun. I enjoy "tinkering" and did a lot of that while shooting traditional bows until my artheritis said no more. With the musket I can induce a choke with homemade (trial and errored) shot cups. I can make readymade cartridges for about any combo. Can make horns, pan primers, learn to knapp flint, or about anything else I have a mind to. Plenty of opertunity to "tinker" is what I like. But the one gun for all is what I like the most. Flint is just an added bonus to the tinkering. And on a cold day when the fingers are numb and clumsy I'll be able to work a pan primer easier than fumbling with caps (even a capper is trying at times). I guess what I'm saying is,, the challenge and required involvement. I'm going to need to shoot often just to get and stay "in form", just like trad. bows.
(my opinion) If you want to shoor 1 or 2 days before opening day and that's it, I don't think Flint wouldbe the way to go,, or at least not for me.

 

Why flint indeed?!
Why black powder at all?
Well......here's my story.
I got into black about 25 years ago when there were "primitive" weapons seasons, so I bought a T/C Hawken as an excuse to spend more time in the woods.
Back then the T/C was the best front stuffer on the market, reliable, affordable and the best warranty in the business.
Good thing, 'cause I've probably returned six or so over the years.
Then came the in-line, Pyro-poop fake powder, then pellets, and modern primers for ignition and I was off and running. In-lines, Leupold scopes, rubber recoil pads, slings, real bullets inside plastic things, and whooo-boy what fun. Fun? Why it was like hunting with my Remington 700.
I bought one of those computer things and joined several "talk" boards and took the handle of "Maxiball". Nice name for a bullet what?
Anyway I was soon corrupted by birddog6, rollingb, and many others. I sold the in-lines, save for one, and went back to cap locks, but nooooooo, that wasn't good 'nuff. :curse:
I had to replace my T/C barrels with Green Mountain drop in units geared to shoot them funny looking inefficient, ballistic dud lead globes wrapped in an old diaper.
I thougt I had reach the heaven of shooting. Round balls from a good barrel shot better than any in-line I ever owned and with a lot less recoil than 3 Pyro-manure pellets.
Good 'nuff? Nooooooo. I had to make a friend out of birddog6, actually met him and he seemed relatively sane to! ::
He showed me some of his work, but they had rocks in them instead of a proper nipple like my cappers. He showed me a .45 flinter, Bedford style and even though he didn't build it it was a dandy so I bought it.
Holy manure was I in for a treat. That sucker went click-boom, RIGHT NOW, and I could tell no difference between the ignition time from a good flinter and my cappers.
Well I was ruined.! :curse:
I shot a benched group of UNDER 1/2" with that thing at 50 yards.
It has real nice striped maple, browned barrel and is more graceful to look at and handle than ANY modern rifle could ever be.
I bought TWO rifles that birddog6 built. :applause: :applause:
Go to his web sight and look at the wonderful work he does.
Now I'm a flint junkie. My life is ruined. The remaining in-line gathers dust, my centerfire rifles are all but fogotten and all I do is shoot flint.
Now I buy black powder by the case!
So let this be a warning to you. You WILL get hooked. :haha:
If'n you do, get set to have some real fun and join the rest of us that understand what heritage and tradition really means.

 

Shoot flint because it's more challenging & gives much greater satisfaction to shooting well, especially when you beat the caplock shooters. If you have a run of misfires on the line, just smile, pause and say, "Some people just can't STAND having this much fun" Know it and believe it and it will become true. Flint shooting is "special". :applause:
: After a while, shooting a cap gun is like shooting a modern rifle - there is very little difference. Shooting a flint gun just seems to get you closer to TRUTH or something - it's more PURE or something - it's just SPECIAL, I guess. Yes - it's much more satisfying & rewarding, and that's "for sure and for certain".
Daryl

 

[steved]

Right on, Daryl!

It's inevitable that one day at the range or in the field a flint shooter will encounter some frustration in the form of misfires, etc., especially one new to it. Instead of letting that situation ruin our day or our view of flintlocks in general, flint shooters reflect on challenge faced by our forefathers who depeded on them for their existence, and who loaded and fired them while being fired upon themselves.

 

Flint rifles hung on late into the Percussion period in some places, long after rimfire ctg. guns were out in plenty. Some mountain-men never changed, but went straight from flint igniton to a ctg. Sharps or other Breechloading ctg. rifle. Bedford county flint and percussion rifles were made right into the 1870's or 80's, even though by 1824, percussion was well on the way to normal use in Europe and Eastern US.
: The reason - when you ran out of caps, you were unarmed, but a chunk of flint could usually be found - somewhere. Musket Flintlocks cannot be likened to rifle flintlocks as by comparrison, the musket lock was much more robust and delivered huge energy in comparrison. A rough chunk of flint will still throw sparks from the heavy springs and huge frizzons on the musket locks, but well knapped flints are required for reliable ignition of a rifle lock.
: Around here, in Central B.C., "finding" flint isn't the case, but around some of the lakes, agate in in abundance and that's what soome sawn flints are made of. Agate can be flaked just as flint, but does have more fracture lines, especially in areas with extreme temperature changes - like here.
: Last time at the range, on Friday, I shot the entire day with one flint - and it was only 1/2 a flint that had been fired (dryfired) about 30 times at home, here, before going to the range.
: The American government itself hung onto flint ignition (for muskets) until 1840, and the model of 1842 was a percussion .69 Smoothbore. The 1841 .54 cal. Rifle, known as the Mississippi rifle was the first to have percussion ignition and most with the advent of the minnie bullet, wee re-bord and rifled in .58 cal. Some weren't which complicated things a bit.
: When cap ignition took over, the prime reason was for improved igniton in the plains where the wind would sometimes "sweep the piming and sparks away". And then, the government tried Maynard priming, for even more speed inloading, but there were severe mixed feelings about that move, yet it perservered for another 10 years, when cap ignition finally took over, briefly. That period was a time of rapid change. There were some forts with up to 4 or even 5 different calibres of weapons, in three different ignition systems. Flint, percussion(including maynard priming), and the new Rimfire(Spencer). By that time, the few remaining flint muskets were probably only used for drill and backup or night guard duty as buck and ball or straight buskshot paper ctgs. were still preferred for such use, by some commanders.
Daryl

 

[musketman]

Besides flint and agate, pyrate (fools gold) will also spark a musket...

I have even used broken flint arrow-heads in a pinch...

 

I've often thought of trying Pirates as there is a bunch of that stuff around here - mountains of it further north around the Kemes Mine - but it's guarded.
; In the wheelock, the pirates really sparks well and renapps itself each time it's fired - always sharp, but a bit crumbly.
: I've meant to ask, and keep forgetting, did you re-grind the springs of the Bess you have? If they are reduced somewhat, both the main and the frizzen spring, to keep the timing correct, flints will last much longer, yet still give plenty of spark. There is also less 'jar' from the cock when the piece is fired, helping somewhat with accuracy.

 

[musketman]

I've meant to ask, and keep forgetting, did you re-grind the springs of the Bess you have?

Never gave it a second thought, I get 50+ shots out of a English flint now, and I think that's good...

Maybe my bess is that one-in-a-hundred that don't eat flints like a five year old and a bag of cookies... :haha:

 

[roundball]

Just a side note about flints & locks...
As a good testimony to the quality improvements that TC redesigned into their flint locks, just this month, I ran two 40-shot range sessions on one 3/4" black english flint, and got a few shots into a third Saturday session when I couldn't knapp it any more...was trying to break 100 with it but didn't make it.
My average is around 50...most of the time I'm able to shoot a 40 shot session with one flint, clean & save it to squeeze out a few more on the next trip...and if I can't quite finish a range session on that day's new flint, I'll drag out one of the used ones and finish off the remaining shots

 

[Birddog6]

SpotShooter: You question of the quality of the GPR lock. IMHO, it is as good or better than any rifle in it's price range. No, it is not as good as a Siler or Chambers lock, but it is a adequate lock for the $ you are paying for the rifle. I have shot thousands of shots thru my GPR & have never had a problem with the lock. Mine averages about 40 shots per flint, sometimes a few more & sometimes a few less. To me that ain't too bad for .70 cents. (Price of the 3/4" flint when bought in bags of 100)
Now I have had one feller tell me I need to work on it as I should get more, and others say that is about normal. But since it is Consistant with 40+ - shots I feel it is just fine & I have allot of wear left in the frizzen. Yes I could mess with the frizzen & soften it a tad & maybe get more shots from a flint, but I could also mess up a good frizzen in doing so & end up screwing with it for months trying to get back what I had....

Regardless of what ya get, it seems like about 1/2 of the newbie guys that get a flintlock right off the bat have this tendency to test their gunsmithing skills on the lock & trigger... I suggest you just leave them alone & learn how to make the rifle shoot consistantly & learn all the fundementals, then when you are ready to ruin a lock go for it..... I say this because most fellers do mess them up & need some new parts after they get over the newbie gunsmith saga. 75% of the time theeeir ain't a dang thing wrong with the lock, it is just newbie stuff they have to learn about proper flint size, alignment, jaw leather, bevel up & down, vent hole size, swabbing & not clogging the vent, lots of lil things that you will learn & very well can without tearing the lock apart.

And last of all, we are not talking about a large investment here so ya don't have allot to lose. If you don't like the flintlock you will have guys Jumping to trade you the flintlock for a percussion.

"Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Knives"