Why not Pyrodex in a flintlock?

[Crazybear]

What type of gunpowder is in fire crackers?

 

[Archer 756]

BLACK POWDER

 

[toot]

Never saw Pyrodex 4F or 2F, just "P" and "RS & Select".

I too have never seen or heard of 4F, PYRIDEX? what planet are you on? show us a bottle of it!

 

[toot]

I too have never seen or heard of 4F, PYRIDEX? what planet are you on? show us a bottle of it!

I apologize! you got me, sorry. I thought you were serious.

 

[toot]

What type of gunpowder is in fire crackers?

fire cracker grade, PYRODEX, of course!

 

[Alan O]

You're right about the grades. I use RS (FFG equivalent) for the charge and P (FFFG equivalent) for the primer (and yes, it does have a "fuse effect" most of the time but it works with my pistols more often than not) Sorry for the confusion and looking forward to using the real stuff when I can.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

In answer to Crazybear's question "What type of gunpowder is in fire crackers?", Archer 756 said:

BLACK POWDER

Actually, no. Firecrackers use flash powder. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_powder
Now, I never take Wikipedia as gospel but this article is accurate. Black powder may be used in larger "firecrackers" like cherry bombs and M80 but not in the average firecracker, it burns too slowly and the charge is too small.

 

[Okie Hog]

Flintlocks work very well with black powder, watched a friend fire 25 rounds straight without a misfire or hang fire.

Flintlocks don't work well when fed black powder substitutes. The shooter can use BP in the pan along with an igniter charge of 5-10 grains of black powder under the BP substitute: But that's a pain.

 

[MSW]

way back in the long- ago, a friend gave me a bunch of Pyrodex. It didn't work at all well in my flintlock rifle, and i had to make a duplex load to get it to fire at all.
works fine in my percussion revolver, though.

 

[Archer 756]

Here in Hudson Valley is American Fire Works and they all use BACK POWDER MIX and what is flash powder made from BLACK POWDER MIX

 

[HighUintas]

igniting the pyrodex is harder than BP! use BP in the pan and it may work

 

[Alan O]

Thinking maybe we should try to crowdfund a Goex buyout

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

I would be curious to see what the results would be of a truly independent test. I will eventually conduct my own but that won't be for a while.

For example, I have seen that pyrodex ignites at a much higher temp, but at what temp, and how fast, does 4F burn? If 4F burns at a higher temp than it takes to ignite pyrodex, and it achieves that temp quickly, then it wouldn't matter.

A real test would require high speed video and an unbiased tester.

Go over to the American Longrifle Forums, and look up posts by the "Mad Monk". He is an engineer who has done some very extensive research on burn rates, etc., and has some really great posts regarding the different black powders and Pyrodex. Pyrodex DOES leave some nasty stuff call "perchlorates" behind, which are difficult to get cleaned out.

 

[johnfrommd]

I would be curious to see what the results would be of a truly independent test. I will eventually conduct my own but that won't be for a while.

For example, I have seen that pyrodex ignites at a much higher temp, but at what temp, and how fast, does 4F burn? If 4F burns at a higher temp than it takes to ignite pyrodex, and it achieves that temp quickly, then it wouldn't matter.

A real test would require high speed video and an unbiased tester.

It is really like apples and oranges. Black Powder is an explosive with an ignition temperature of 350*. Pyrodex is Black Powder that has been treated with a coating that increases the ignition temperature to 740* thereby getting it classified as a propellant.

Granted, if you grind the Pyrodex, you will probably remove some of the coating so that some times it will ignite with a flint. However, it won't be reliable enough to be worth the effort.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Go over to the American Longrifle Forums, and look up posts by the "Mad Monk". He is an engineer who has done some very extensive research on burn rates, etc., and has some really great posts regarding the different black powders and Pyrodex. Pyrodex DOES leave some nasty stuff call "perchlorates" behind, which are difficult to get cleaned out.

Absolutely. Hot water dissolve it.

 

[Okie Hog]

Pyrodex DOES leave some nasty stuff call "perchlorates" behind, which are difficult to get cleaned out.

Before leaving the range after firing Pyrodex, i swab the bore with a patch wet with Windex with vinegar, it dissolves Pyrodex residue very quickly. At home the cleanup is fast using tap water.

BTW: With the possible exception of Hodgdon 888, all the black powder substitutes contain potassium perchlorate. It's a cheap way of increasing the puissance of the powder.

SDS Sheets-Hodgdon Muzzleloading-2017.xlsx

Black_MZ.pdf (alliantpowder.com)

get_pdf.cfm (nist.gov)

 

[pchwcf50110]

Before leaving the range after firing Pyrodex, i swab the bore with a patch wet with Windex with vinegar, it dissolves Pyrodex residue very quickly. At home the cleanup is fast using tap water.

Hodgdon states on their website that after firing brass cartridge cases loaded with Pyrodex to immediately drop them in a bucket of water with vinegar added to nuetralize the residue. Pyrodex residue will destroy the brass case quickly otherwise.

 

[Pete G]

What type of gunpowder is in fire crackers?

Powdered magnesium

 

[Ragged Edge]

It's a cheap way of increasing the " PUISSANCE" of the powder.

SDS Sheets-Hodgdon Muzzleloading-2017.xlsx

Black_MZ.pdf (alliantpowder.com)

get_pdf.cfm (nist.gov)

WOW! I'm 74 and learned a new word today! Thanks!

 

[Okie Hog]

BTW: The device for measuring the puissance of black powder is called an eprouvette. Some resemble Rube Goldberg devices.

black powder eprouvette - Bing images