Why octagon?

[m-g willy]

Were there any round barrel rifles before 1800?
Or were all the round barreled guns smooth bores?
And ( why ) didn't they use round rifled barrels on the early flint guns?( it would have made for a lighter gun)

wondering Willy :hmm:

 

[roundball]

Were there any round barrel rifles before 1800?
Or were all the round barreled guns smooth bores?
And ( why ) didn't they use round rifled barrels on the early flint guns?( it would have made for a lighter gun)

wondering Willy :hmm:

Seems I read somewhere that it was easier to make an octagon shaped barrel than it was a round barrel back then...might be a good question to ask in the "Builder's Category"

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think that's exactly it. A barrel with flats can be pounded around a mandrel to hexagonal and then filed to shape. A round barrel would take a lathe or a lot more and more careful filing.

 

[Swampman]

I believe barrels were octagon for two reasons. To make it easier to breech and unbreech the barrel and to help resist barrel rotation when the bullet travels down the barrel.

 

[JackAubrey]

Not to mention, triangular barrels looked silly!LOL!Best regards,J.A.

 

It seems very difficult to make an exactly true round barrel when working from hand. I guess it is easier to make it octagon first. This way you can check the straightness of the edges and correct any waves. When the octagon is true, you can make it 16-sided and then round off the edges completely.

 

[Cherokee]

I wonder how they made the octagon to round trade gun barrels?
hammer to shape and file? Probably with some dowel type rod as a form possibly?

 

[mikelange]

I have read in a number of books dealing with the history of guns, that as guns and gunpowder developed the "experts" came to the (mistaken, as it turned out) conclusion that octagonal barrels were stronger in the breech than round. Please bear in mind, I'm only repeating sources whose own documentation and authority may very well be questionable. Applying the theory to rifles, though, it at least makes sense -- the issue of strength, at the breech in particular, would be more critical with the increase in pressure, rifle vs smoothbore.

I have a small problem with the theory of grinding/filing a barrel octagon, then working it round. Given the tendency of the European nations to wage war on one another and everyone else they came in contact with, it seems that if the first usable stage in a barrel's life was in octagonal form, the need for lots of muskets right NOW would have dictated leaving them octagon, slapping them into stocks, and shipping them out.

 

[nchawkeye]

I had always heard it was for "style"...the Germanic countries were known best for rifled-barreled guns, and they preferred octagan barrels..As was pointed out..there were octagan to round barrels and round barrels being made, so they were capable of making round or octagan barrels...Early Germanic matchlocks and wheelocks usually have octagan barrels where as English matchlocks of the same time period have round barrels....

 

[Henry]

In France , octogon to round were popular
starting 1700 , the round part was made on a
large grinding wheel ( over 6' )
The octogon part was done with the " machine a canneler les fusils " a contraption that looks
pretty much like an ice skate shaprenning machine .

 

[benvenuto]

Octagonal barrels are heavier. They are also easy for a blacksmith to true up using an anvil and a flatter (4 sides, 8 sides, 16 sides are easy, 3, 6, 9 sides difficult, rough round possible but needs grinding work to finish accurately).
As Henry stated above, very large, water driven and cooled grindstones were used to finish grind the barrels. Special jigs usually took care of the swamping on octagon barrels and the alignment of the flats. There were other jigs to taper round musket barrels. the barrel was mounted on centers on a frame so that all grinding was concentric to the bore.

I have also read at at one stage spanish barrel makers were so proud of their work they disdained the use of grinding or files, leaving them "as forged". I suspect thats romantic twaddle though

 

[CrackStock]

Any blacksmith will tell you that making an octagon is an early step in making something round. You normally hammer square and then flat the corners to make an octagon. It just happens that this shape works well as a barrel, so it stayed that way for many years.

CS

 

[m-g willy]

Thanks for the opinions and input guys.

Willy

 

[Stophel]

I like round rifle barrels with raised ribs!!!! How'd you like to make one of those? :shocked2:

 

[RedFeather]

I would guess that a barrel made from twisting and dry welding rods around a mandrel would come out pretty rough on the outside. Doubt all colonial gunsmiths had access to six foot grinding wheels. I didn't see anything like that the last time I was in Williamsburg. My guess is they used a Mexican lathe - hand files and Manuel Labor.

A local gun shop owner I know met an old Englishman who as a young man went to work for one of the big gun makers, Rigby or Holland and Holland. The first task they assigned him was to make an octagonal barrel. He was supplied with a piece of round stock, a file and told to come back when finished. Took a loooong time, but that was how they did things.

RedFeather