wrong load or not????

[Razorx]

Hey Everyone,

Need some imput from you all on a load I am using with a pedersoli 12ga.(no choke tubes). The load I am using is #6 steel shot(1 1/8oz) and 60 grs. of t-7 powder. I am not sure if I have the right setup for bring down game. I have taking this load out and patterned it out. I have had great results in patterning it out. I get 70% coverage at 25yrds and 50% at 40yrds. However I am concerned that there is not enough kenetic energy to drop ducks or pheasents. I believe when I talked about this load earlier in the year that with this load that mit be a concern. I have triied to pattern out with more powder but when looking at the target it looks like my shot cup blows threw the pattern. I thought that it mit be the load or it could be I just can't shot :grin: but wanted you thoughts. I thought I mit switch to #4 steel. I have to use non-toxic shot because I hunt waterfall and on goverment land.

When I load my gun I pour 60grs of T-7 powder, 1 over the powder card, 1/2 a fiber wad(lubed with olive oil), 1 plastic shotcup with the cotton ball, 1 1/8oz of steel, and 1 over the shot card. The shot cards, over the powder and fiber wads are from circle fly. I am using #11 winchester mag caps.

Thanks for any help or imput you have to offer. The only reason I was using #6 was freind that use modern shotguns use it. However several freind that hunt geese, ducks and pheasents all the time say not to use #6 but #4. However I realize that there is a difference between modern shotguns and Black powder.

Nolan

 

[paulvallandigham]

The problem with steel shot is its light weight. It does not retain much pellet energy unless it leaves the muzzle at very high velocities- speeds you generally cannot attain using either Black Powder or the substitutes.

I would recommend using either #5 or #4 steel shot for waterfowl, and then limit the range to 30 yards. I would not shoot waterfowl at 40 yards. Add more shot to the load, to gain more pellets in your pattern, and more possible hits. Its the cumulative pellet energy that is going to bring a bird down from shock, not the energy of a single pellet, unless you are lucky enough to get a head, heart, or spinal cord hit.

I shoot 1 1/4 oz of lead #5 shot in my BP gun, over 75 grains of FFg powder. Velocity is about 1050 fps., well under the Speed of sound. I get better patterns, and have killed pheasant out to a measured 33 yards with the load. Steel pellets are harder, and if you do use a heavy plastic shotcup, you should receive more pellets in the center of your pattern, than I will using lead shot in a cylinder bore gun.

I recommend that you take a look at the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual, and find their tables on velocity, pellet energy, time of flight, and drop in flight. The table is for lead shot, but it gives you an idea of the loss in velocity and of pellet energy for lead shot. There are references to use to determine comparable pellet energy for steel shot.

I make NO comment on your use of T7powder. Its expensive, absorbs moisture fast, loses its power fast, and requires modern solvents to clean your barrel, in addition to using soap and water to clean out the percussion cap debris. You will also need a bore brush and modern solvents, or something like acetone, to get the plastic residue out of your barrel. For those reasons, I have not attempted to work up any load in my shotgun, and can't possibly comment on the powder charge you are using, or compare it to more or less of the same powder, or to different powders. T7 Does burn at a much higher temperature than does black powder, making it more difficult to ignite. Most experienced members here are recommending that you use #11 Magnum percussion caps to insure quick ignition. They use regular #11 caps for igniting Black Powder.

I would omit using that 1/2" cushion wad with the oil in your load. Just use the OP wad on top of the powder, to act as a fire wall. Then put the plastic cup and shot on top of that and the OS cards to keep the load in its position in the barrel. Use 2 OS cards, instead of one. Then, if you want your bore lubed, use a greased cleaning patch to run down the barrel after you have seated the OS card. This lubes the front of the barrel, allowing the plastic cup to slide over the bore, and not deposit any or so much plastic on the sides of the bore. The lube will be there to soften the powder residue.

As a practice, if you are going to do a lot of shooting at a clay target range, or you are hunting birds with a large daily bag limit, then you can lube the barrel with something like bore butter BEFORE you load the powder. This will prevent the crud from caking on the bore, from load to load. The subsequent greasing of the bore after each load is seated will refresh the lube on the bore's walls, and keep fouling soft all day. If you are hunting in very cold, dry weather, then lube the barrel before loading that first powder charge. Bore Butter( Wonderlube, Young Country 1000)is stable and does not contaminate black powder. I am not quite sure about Triple 7 powder, but it should cause no problem with it chemically.

 

[roundball]

In my experience, lead 6's are marginal for ducks and definitely too light for geese.
Also, when using steel, since it's much lighter than lead the rule of thumb is to drop down a couple size #'s to keep the weight up...ie: #4 steel instead of #6 lead. But then you get into a reduced pellet count issue.

A better alternative to steel would be to use Bismuth or Hevi-shot.
And best would be (reach for your wallet here) EcoTungsten(Niceshot)...an actual lead replacement non-toxic that loads & shoots just like lead.

ie: if I was going to use #5 lead for ducks, I'd use #5 NiceShot instead...#4 lead for geese / #4 Niceshot.
The good news is since its ballistically identical to lead, you can do 99% of your load development using the regular corresponding size lead shot, then fire a final couple shots with Niceshot to verify the pattern

 

[tg]

Some od the better shooters bounce the rod and they are usually in the top three scores. I tried for a while and could not tell any difference, but was likely at the apex of my abilities by then.
I have not tried it in the smoothbores other than to check the ball to make sure it is down after a rigorous jaunt thru some thick cover, I doubt it would help smoothbore accuracy due to the nature of the beast when compared to rifles.

 

[10 gauge]

My personal steel shot size for ducks is an 1 1/4oz of #1s and #2s being the lightest size I will go. I hope your powder charge is pushing your load past 1050 fps, because your powder charge seemed kinda light compared to my TC load data.
If you can aford it buy some Bismuth or Hevishot #4s or #2s.

 

[Stumpkiller]

The old standby test was to set a new (empty) soup or coffee can out at your intended range and see if the shot perforates the metal (aluminum soda/beer cans or rusty old dump cans don't count). It should at least blow holes in the facing side of the can.

If you're defeating the steel you'll get past the feathers.

Don't know nuttin about blackpowder substitutes so you'll have to test it yourself.

 

[Zoar]

I second the emotion about using cans to check for penetration.

In my opinion head hits are what kill in most cases. There have been many a bird hunter writer who have waxed on and on about this.

I see no problem with 6's. You get alot of pellets and density, and as your own patterning tests reveal--you have been getting great patterns with your load. I would not change and just go out and ENJOY your hunt. IF you see you are not getting birds, the first thing I would do is up the powder by 5 grains and add 1/8 ounce MORE pellets.

I know this advice is contrary to those who say go bigger pellets yet as we all know bird hunting has many flavours or hunting strategies. And I know you are just looking for individual opinions and hopefully can deal with it NOT being a concensus on this. Shot size for bird hunting is probably one of the longest standing debates out there and I would guess it was debated in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's 1900's, and nothing will change much as we pierce the 2000's.... hahahaaa

 

[paulvallandigham]

Zoar: Check the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Data Manual and look up the tables on retained velocity at 20,40,&60 yards. Then compare pellet size for retained energy at 20, 40, &60 yds. The larger pellet size definitely has the edge at BP RANGES.

And, because you can put as little or as much shot in your Mler, you can increase your pellet count for the larger shot size to equal that number of pellets in the smaller shot size load. ( you can't always do this with shotshell casings.)

 

[Britsmoothy]

I generally find without refering to charts for energy that the smaller shot takes birds as good as the larger pellets. The odds of head and neck taking hits are vastly increased of which on a flying bird is the only cert of an instant stop.
I have seen a goose take a 270 mid ships and take off!
I never never have much reguard for ft/lbs, it's just maths.
I do allways have a dog with me and any running bird is considered good chase for the dog and part of the whole experience.
A 30yd bird is a far bird in my opinion and as I age more - even with a cartridge gun. It just does not seem necessary to shoot far birds any more. A flushing bird from close cover is just as exciting and a dense pattern of fine shot ample.

There is one exception for me, if I was shooting going away pheasant from cover. Then I would use 4s from my true cyl Pedersoli. But tends to only happen when walking up in a line of guns.

Just my 2cents.

Brit.

 

[Razorx]

Thanks Guys,

I want to thank you for all your imput. I know the one thing I never did was a penatration test with this load. I plan on triing several of your suggestion this weekend. I know that if I do get a runner I hope that my dog will get it. I posted this thread because I was just real unsure of my load. After reading your thought and opions I am going to try them this weekend and see what happens. I will let you all know.

Nolan

 

[wtilenw]

.....
And best would be (reach for your wallet here) EcoTungsten(Niceshot)...an actual lead replacement non-toxic that loads & shoots just like lead.

Just checked the website. One standard loaded round of "niceshot" is about $2.80, that is $70.00 for the standard box of 25! :shocked2:
Idaho PRB