Wrong side, wrong gun powderhorn accident!
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mark starr
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I was there. I want to set this straight. T.F. was carrying a powder horn that has a spring loader brass spout. Accidents happen that are just that - ACCIDENTS!
paulvallandigham
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Okay: When was the last time that " TF" took that spring loaded Spout apart and cleaned the gate??? Powder residue coats those thin, flat-metal gates with great regularity, particularly on hot, humid days. It coats both front and back. The residue build up prevents the gate from closing properly, and that can allow a spark to reach the main charge in the horn. The ones with the round post, or tube, plunger take only a little bit longer to fail to close properly.
Like you, I also put the powder horn on my strong side( Left, in my case.) When I am shooting my LHed flintlocks, the locks then are on the other side of the stock from my body( and powder horn) and closer to the right side of my body than my left. When shooting a RH flintlock, I have to turn my body to insure that the flash powder does not set my shirt sleeve on fire.
I also make a habit of pushing the horn back so that the spout of the horn catches on the strap of my range bag, holding the horn back around my kidneys and behind the left side of my body. It takes no effort at all to reach back and lift the horn up and around the strap to bring it around to the front of my body to load the next charge in my powder measure.
Like you, I also put the powder horn on my strong side( Left, in my case.) When I am shooting my LHed flintlocks, the locks then are on the other side of the stock from my body( and powder horn) and closer to the right side of my body than my left. When shooting a RH flintlock, I have to turn my body to insure that the flash powder does not set my shirt sleeve on fire.
I also make a habit of pushing the horn back so that the spout of the horn catches on the strap of my range bag, holding the horn back around my kidneys and behind the left side of my body. It takes no effort at all to reach back and lift the horn up and around the strap to bring it around to the front of my body to load the next charge in my powder measure.
tjohnson56
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Sorry to hear about TF, hope he ends up fully recovered.
But thanks for posting this, it was a wake up call for me. I've got a CVA powder flask, looks like a small brass tube with a spring loaded gate under the pour spout. At the range when filling my measure I'd release the spring when close to the top of the measure and just tap the flask to get what I needed for a level pour. I thought I was just emptying the spout at first but figured out later that the gate was not closing completely and it was working like a trickle charger.
It's a small flask, maybe about 8 or 10 charges of 80 gr before I need to refill it. But I don't need it to blow up. I just spent the last 20 minutes cleaning the gate. It seems to be working now but i'll still keep an eye on it.
Give TF my best wishes and tell him maybe his bad luck may have been a wake up call to many thanks to this forum.
But thanks for posting this, it was a wake up call for me. I've got a CVA powder flask, looks like a small brass tube with a spring loaded gate under the pour spout. At the range when filling my measure I'd release the spring when close to the top of the measure and just tap the flask to get what I needed for a level pour. I thought I was just emptying the spout at first but figured out later that the gate was not closing completely and it was working like a trickle charger.
It's a small flask, maybe about 8 or 10 charges of 80 gr before I need to refill it. But I don't need it to blow up. I just spent the last 20 minutes cleaning the gate. It seems to be working now but i'll still keep an eye on it.
Give TF my best wishes and tell him maybe his bad luck may have been a wake up call to many thanks to this forum.
Tumblernotch
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You'd still be better off to use a charger. Besides, I think you'll get a more accurate measurement.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
tjohnson56
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I'm not sure what you mean by that. The trickle charger I was referring to was the kind I used when I used to reload smokeless center fire rounds.
What kind of charger are you talking about?
What kind of charger are you talking about?
Tumblernotch
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Like you said, you need to keep an eye on it so that it doesn't "trickle" powder out and possibly explode if you did have a cook-off. Using a separate charger will do away with that concern.
As for getting a more accurate charge, I'm assuming that you place a finger over the end of the spout when holding it down and opening the gate. I have some old CVA flasks that I use at the range that work that way. The pressure of a finger over the hole (especially if it's a large diameter charger spout) will make the finger tip bulge a bit into it and that will give an inaccurate (lighter) charge. If your flask has another gate at the mouth of the spout (like some shot chargers) that wouldn't be a problem.
By a different charger I meant a separate powder measure, either adjustable or fixed.
As for getting a more accurate charge, I'm assuming that you place a finger over the end of the spout when holding it down and opening the gate. I have some old CVA flasks that I use at the range that work that way. The pressure of a finger over the hole (especially if it's a large diameter charger spout) will make the finger tip bulge a bit into it and that will give an inaccurate (lighter) charge. If your flask has another gate at the mouth of the spout (like some shot chargers) that wouldn't be a problem.
By a different charger I meant a separate powder measure, either adjustable or fixed.
tom fletcher
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Tom Fletcher replies:
I am the subject of this thread and will set the record straight: On July 11 at the Chadron Rendezvous I had just finished the woods walk and was going to take one last shot at the 100 yd target - I have been shooting muzzleloaders since 1964 - I loaded my left handed .40 flinter by holding my flat horn that has a spring loaded shut off valve and pouring powder into my measure(40grns) releasing the valve, poured the powder into the barrel and finished loading, primed the lock (small manton from L&R) raised the gun took aim and fired "Woosh--BOOM" and I blown back a step or 2 and thought the gun had blown up. My shirt caught fire. Now, upon weeks of reflection and discussion I know several things - the horn was sown to my bag strap high up and thus the spout was directly under the lock and pointed up, MOST IMPORTANT WAS THE REVELATION THAT THE ROUND SPRING LOADED BRASS HORN CAPS DO NOT SEAL WELL. I had always assumed they did(yes I know) so a billion to one occurance took place when an over flash spark landed in the spout and set the horn off. I was lucky cause the horn blew out and not in, my arm and rifle protect my face and most of all my fireman, emt friend did all the right things in keeping well meaning people from doing the wrong things - he kept me upright and poured ice cold water(a woman ran back to her camp and carried a full large cooler of ice water to me) and wrapped silk around the arm - he and another had pulled my burning shirt off. Consequently, the burns were all 2nd degree and kept sterile,I have healed without infection - the kindness shown by friends both known and unknown was incredible. I will always keep the bag on the opposite side and when using a plug horn NOT put a string on the plug so I am forced to replace it and not let it dangle. I am thankful that I had walked away from ppl sitting down next to the range. I will always hang the horn on the bag so the bag acts as a shield. So after 43 yrs of shooting I had a wake up call and plan to use this as a teaching lesson that we are participating in a dangerous sport but with caution and diligence but mostly with common sense it is a very rewarding sport. No, we don't need any more rules just range awareness and good teachers.
I will be happy to answer any further questions.
I do have a new camp name!!
TF
I am the subject of this thread and will set the record straight: On July 11 at the Chadron Rendezvous I had just finished the woods walk and was going to take one last shot at the 100 yd target - I have been shooting muzzleloaders since 1964 - I loaded my left handed .40 flinter by holding my flat horn that has a spring loaded shut off valve and pouring powder into my measure(40grns) releasing the valve, poured the powder into the barrel and finished loading, primed the lock (small manton from L&R) raised the gun took aim and fired "Woosh--BOOM" and I blown back a step or 2 and thought the gun had blown up. My shirt caught fire. Now, upon weeks of reflection and discussion I know several things - the horn was sown to my bag strap high up and thus the spout was directly under the lock and pointed up, MOST IMPORTANT WAS THE REVELATION THAT THE ROUND SPRING LOADED BRASS HORN CAPS DO NOT SEAL WELL. I had always assumed they did(yes I know) so a billion to one occurance took place when an over flash spark landed in the spout and set the horn off. I was lucky cause the horn blew out and not in, my arm and rifle protect my face and most of all my fireman, emt friend did all the right things in keeping well meaning people from doing the wrong things - he kept me upright and poured ice cold water(a woman ran back to her camp and carried a full large cooler of ice water to me) and wrapped silk around the arm - he and another had pulled my burning shirt off. Consequently, the burns were all 2nd degree and kept sterile,I have healed without infection - the kindness shown by friends both known and unknown was incredible. I will always keep the bag on the opposite side and when using a plug horn NOT put a string on the plug so I am forced to replace it and not let it dangle. I am thankful that I had walked away from ppl sitting down next to the range. I will always hang the horn on the bag so the bag acts as a shield. So after 43 yrs of shooting I had a wake up call and plan to use this as a teaching lesson that we are participating in a dangerous sport but with caution and diligence but mostly with common sense it is a very rewarding sport. No, we don't need any more rules just range awareness and good teachers.
I will be happy to answer any further questions.
I do have a new camp name!!
TF
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TF,
Happy that youre all right! Next to your experience im just a kid with a dream, but, i do reckon that the most important piece of safety gear would be a powder horn Plug w/o leash. That way youve got the plug either in the horn, or between your fingers (ready to go back into the horn!). or in my case, between my teeth :redface:
:v
Happy that youre all right! Next to your experience im just a kid with a dream, but, i do reckon that the most important piece of safety gear would be a powder horn Plug w/o leash. That way youve got the plug either in the horn, or between your fingers (ready to go back into the horn!). or in my case, between my teeth :redface:
:v
Tom, I am glad to hear that you are doing well. Greg told me of your accident and I have thought alot about it. So much so, I was thinking of making a few changes with how I shoot my flinter. I am glad you joined the forum and shared your experience with us. Thank you.
Hope to see you at the fort next month.
Joe Yanta
Hope to see you at the fort next month.
Joe Yanta
Tom,
Welcome to the Forum. I'm glad you are alright and I appreciate your candor and honestly. :thumbsup:
Welcome to the Forum. I'm glad you are alright and I appreciate your candor and honestly. :thumbsup:
DOUBLEDEUCE 1
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Wow... You are one lucky man. Glad to know you are alright.
tjohnson56
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I just use the flask to fill my powder measure, I don't pour directly into the bore.
I have seen one such incident in my years of shooting black powder.
A guy at one of our pistol shoots several years ago was using a medium sized horn to load a cap and ball revolver, left it setting on the bench and some time during the firing phase it ignited. (I know, powder horn w/ a cap & ball revolver???)
It did not explode.
It did, however, do a credible imitation of a seriously deranged cruise missile. It left the bench at a moderately slow velocity, bounced off the ground a couple of times, danced around a little, did a 180 and ended up under a car in the parking area behind the line. Total distance of about 25 or 30 yards.
I have had a couple thoughts that keep recurring everytime I think about that, and whenever I hear about others having their horns/flasks explode.
1. We found the plug laying on the bench. The opening in the horn was obviously large enough so that the powder never reached "critical mass". This has led me to wonder if maybe the spring loaded valves might be a contributing cause of the explosion itself, over and above the leaking.
2. We all carry horns at various times. Can't get around it. The only injury here was to this guys dignity. But if he had had that thing tied to him in any manner, I think the injury would have been nasty.
3. In spite of this, I still use a spring loaded plunger on most of my stuff. I don't know. Maybe I just have a deep rooted psychological urge for self-destruction.
A guy at one of our pistol shoots several years ago was using a medium sized horn to load a cap and ball revolver, left it setting on the bench and some time during the firing phase it ignited. (I know, powder horn w/ a cap & ball revolver???)
It did not explode.
It did, however, do a credible imitation of a seriously deranged cruise missile. It left the bench at a moderately slow velocity, bounced off the ground a couple of times, danced around a little, did a 180 and ended up under a car in the parking area behind the line. Total distance of about 25 or 30 yards.
I have had a couple thoughts that keep recurring everytime I think about that, and whenever I hear about others having their horns/flasks explode.
1. We found the plug laying on the bench. The opening in the horn was obviously large enough so that the powder never reached "critical mass". This has led me to wonder if maybe the spring loaded valves might be a contributing cause of the explosion itself, over and above the leaking.
2. We all carry horns at various times. Can't get around it. The only injury here was to this guys dignity. But if he had had that thing tied to him in any manner, I think the injury would have been nasty.
3. In spite of this, I still use a spring loaded plunger on most of my stuff. I don't know. Maybe I just have a deep rooted psychological urge for self-destruction.
Tumblernotch
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Oh, Okay! I must have misunderstood. :thumbsup:
hepburn4590
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Its good that you are OK.
Blizzard of '93
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Glad it turned out OK for you. A valuable lesson, I use a brass powder flask with said spring-loaded valve. I have had it for maybe 25 years and the round 'valve' does get crudded up. Occasionally it needs to be taken down and cleaned both to provide a good seal and keep it functioning smoothly.
And welcome to the Forum Firehand :hatsoff:
And welcome to the Forum Firehand :hatsoff:
I've read a couple of articles which claim that those strong brass powder flasks would be like a hand grenade going off as opposed to the old powder flasks that were paper thin metal...no idea if its true...but I got one in a box of stuff from an estate sale and have never used it.
I know of at least one hornmaker who only uses 3-4 toothpicks to hold the big plug (I hate calling it a ********!) with the hopes that if the above ever does happen that it will blow the plug out instead of exploding the horn.roundball said:
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