zouave muskets

[Pete G]

I'm a purist. A "Zouave' is a specific model. It was designed for Minie ball. If I'm getting a reproduction of an historical firearm, it should be historically accurate.

If you are a purist then you know that "Zouave" is is not the correct name and NONE of of the imported repos are correct.

 

[Tumbledown]

If you are a purist then you know that "Zouave" is is not the correct name and NONE of of the imported repos are correct.

Yes, I do know Zouave is not correct, but if I say 1863 Remington, many will go, "Huh?"

 

[Stantheman86]

No one calls it the 1863 Remington, it's like these Commercial names for firearms become what they're called.

Like how I think "Musketoon" sounds silly but no one knows what an 1861 Enfield Artillery Short Rifle is , Navy Arms just made them "Musketoons " and it stuck forever.

 

[Zonie]

No one calls it the 1863 Remington, it's like these Commercial names for firearms become what they're called.

Like how I think "Musketoon" sounds silly but no one knows what an 1861 Enfield Artillery Short Rifle is , Navy Arms just made them "Musketoons " and it stuck forever.

When it comes to us modern shooters who shoot replicas, your right.

On the other hand, Flayderman's Guide which is talking about real antiques, does call the "Zouave" a, "Remington 1863 Percussion Contract Rifle".
Here's what Mr. Flayderman says about it:

"One of the best made and designed military arms of the Civil War era. The origin of the name "Zouave" for this rifle has yet to be revealed. In official documents and the U.S. contract it was termed "Harpers Ferry Pattern." The great majority of them found in higher grades of condition suggest they were not issued; Their usage remains a mystery: "
There was 12,501 of the guns made by Remington in 1862-1865.

 

[TNGhost]

My Zouave shoots PRB best, minis were not consistent.

Which is what thought about mine at first with some disappointment. However after some research I found that the key to accuracy with the Minie is bore size and the fit of the bullet. I went from the Lee .575 mold to the .578 and it was like magic.

Yes it is easier to get accuracy with a PB when you don't have the right diameter bullet, as the patch makes up the difference, but you give away mass and power, and historically these guns were built for the Minie bullet, so there is that. There is also a reason that they were built that way as the Minie, in the days, was recognized as an improvement that sidelined the roundball for general use.

 

[TNGhost]

The original "Minie" Ball used by the United States Army was a .5775 for the 1855 Springfield.

When Enfields were introduced into the mix, the diameter was reduced to .545 so the same cartridges could be used in both weapons .

Historically, a .5775 size is the right size for a "Zouave " rifle but repro bore sizes are all over the place so it's kinda irrelevant.

Exactly, and you have to do some work and experimentation to find the right fit, same as you would developing a handload for a cartridge rifle, or trying different brands of ammo to see which is more accurate. The patched ball is a lazy man's way of solving the problem of accuracy in a rifled musket. It was the easy and very first solution that was come up with for bore diameter affecting accuracy

 

[Stantheman86]

When it comes to us modern shooters who shoot replicas, your right.

On the other hand, Flayderman's Guide which is talking about real antiques, does call the "Zouave" a, "Remington 1863 Percussion Contract Rifle".
Here's what Mr. Flayderman says about it:

"One of the best made and designed military arms of the Civil War era. The origin of the name "Zouave" for this rifle has yet to be revealed. In official documents and the U.S. contract it was termed "Harpers Ferry Pattern." The great majority of them found in higher grades of condition suggest they were not issued; Their usage remains a mystery: "
There was 12,501 of the guns made by Remington in 1862-1865.

I saw an Original just today at a local gun shop , looked absolutely trashed with a sewer pipe bore, like someone bought it from Bannermans and used it as a barn gun.

 

[Stantheman86]

Did the gun show legend that Roger's & Spencer revolvers were issued during the Phillipine Insurrection die yet? Because 99% of people don't know what either a Rogers & Spencer or the Phillipine Insurrection is .

This started in old Gander Mt catalogs 30+ years ago..

 

[RjSixgun]

So if calling the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle a Zouave is offensive, is it also offensive to call the M1841 Rifle a Mississippi Rifle????

 

[tenngun]

Names used today may not have any relationship with the past. We say Brown Bess all the time, and the names old but it’s a nickname.
Sometimes we start getting antsy if someone says Kentucky rifle, but no one called ‘em Pennsylvanian or southern mountain or Ohio’s back in the day ( did you call my gun a Virginian???? Any idjit can see it’s a iron mounted Maryland.... I think not)
I think if you have a Zouave (1863 Remington contract rifle) and you call it such most folks will know what type of gun your talking about.... and that’s a lot easier then saying a ‘silver mounted Missouri made Tennessee styles southren mountian rifle’.

 

[Stantheman86]

People who nitpick firearms terminology like it's personally offensive to them are annoying.

Imagine if you were at a gun show like "that's a decent Zouave "
Excuse me that's an 1863 Remington Rifle

You'd probably want to crack the guy.

But less people actually do that in public

 

[wb78963]

you get more projectiles per pound of lead with ball. An being a cheapskate i shoot balls in my Pedersoli Sharps.

 

[Stantheman86]

This is partly why my Christmas gift to myself is going to be (another) .54 Mississippi from Pedersoli. So I can just go casually shoot with .530 round ball I can get 100 of for $12 at a Mom and Pop store along with the .10 patches I get from Minuteman.

I don't always have time or motivation to lube and size Minies and roll cartridges, I really have to be in "the zone" for that. Also just exploring a casting set up.

So a military rifle that is historically correct with commonly available. 530 Round Balls? Yes please

 

[Tumbledown]

I never said the term "Zouave" was offensive, or wrong. I only said if it's a repro and going to be called a Zouave, it should be an accurate representation, including barrel twist.

To add to the confusion, the OP asked about Zouave muskets, but Zouaves were rifles, yet some modern "Zouaves" are smoothbores...

Apparently, all 1863 Remingtons are Zouaves, but not all so-called Zouaves are 1863 Remingtons.

 

[RjSixgun]

The real confusion comes when people miss use the terms musket, rifle, rifle-musket and rifled musket.

 

[eggwelder]

my original 1863 Remington has a ugly 7 groove bore that will hit a man size target at 100 yards reliably with lyman 577 Minies, Lee semi wad cutter Minies (huge things) and short stubby Minies from what i`m assuming is a Pedersoli brass mold. That was over 60 gr BP. I imagine it would have been very effective on the battlefield.
Have double patched a .562 Rb and kind of got groups, but really high at 100 yards.
Just got a 575 lee RB mold, but have not tried it out yet. Next week when the holidays start, i`ll try it out along with my home made “sniper sight” to see if i can bring the MPI down somewhat.

i have not really worked up a load for this rifle yet.

 

[Eterry]

My .575 lee minie mold is too small for my rifled muskets, I was getting 7 moa with it. I shimmed it up to. 578 and it really does well, 3 moa is my best group at 75yards.

 

[Stantheman86]

I stopped correcting people who are just well meaning gun enthusiasts but don't know terminology , I'll have something like my Euroarms. 54 Mississippi out for the day at the range and people are like "neat musket" just smile , say thanks, offer to let a kid take a shot, etc. Any military muzzleloader is forever just going to be a "Musket" and it's ok, there's far worse to worry about

 

[Zonie]

I stopped correcting people who are just well meaning gun enthusiasts but don't know terminology , I'll have something like my Euroarms. 54 Mississippi out for the day at the range and people are like "neat musket" just smile , say thanks, offer to let a kid take a shot, etc. Any military muzzleloader is forever just going to be a "Musket" and it's ok, there's far worse to worry about

I agree with you. More than a few times, I've heard people talk about my muzzleloaders using the wrong term and I just smile.
For instance, when I was shooting one of my custom Kentucky rifles at the shooting range a man and his son came walking towards us.
The man leaned over and said to his son, "Look at that! That's a musket just like the ones the Mountain Men used to shoot a long time ago!"
The boy's eyes widened and he looked at the gun in amazement.

Rather than correcting him, I just smiled and showed them the flintlock lock and explained how it worked. Then I proceeded to load it and then take a shot.

The way I figured it, correcting the man would only make him look foolish in the eyes of his son.

 

[Stantheman86]

I hate being "that guy" so if people mean well I just let it be.

"Musket" is just a blanket term a lot of people use.