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Percussion Revolvers

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Dphar

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Since it obvious there is some confusion concerning C&B revolvers I thought I might point out a few things having been involved in owning, shooting and gunsmithing them since about 1965
For one, assuming that the average modern percussion revolver is in anyway as carefully made as an original Colt or Remington is delusional.

So unless things have changed recently:
First. They invariably come from a cottage industry system in Italy.
Second. There are 2-3 quality grades within the SAME BRAND in every case I have seen or experienced. So you can get sterling examples from Uberti and the next is barely useable. Even when ordering direct from Uberti USA. BTDT
Third. Since they are cottage industry there is likely variation in parts especially those not critical to assembly.
For example. If the firearm has some nipples that caps fit good on and some that they don't it could be that some of them came from a sub contractor in one part of town and some from another and/or the gun is second or third grade the maker supplies what he is paid to supply or what he can get away with. So while the nipple THREADS for example may be to a standard the rest is variable. Diameter/taper/length of the section the cap seats on for example. If its made little to long it will effect the diameter.
So if there is a variation in how the caps fit there are options.
First find another cap brand, I recommend Dynamit Nobel. Not all cap brands are created equal.
Second buy new nipples, hopefully they will be better quality or at least uniform.
If they are too long or too large in diameter resize them.

Buying a C&B revolver. Success will depend on the IMPORTER. Some importers check the guns and will not accept the lower grades. Some don't care and sell lower grade guns for the same price or close too what a first grade gun would cost.
I hate buying a reproduction revolver unseen.
Back when I had an FFL I ordered a SAA revolver from a company I will refer to as every morning fixit. I ordered and sent back 2 consecutive revolvers and gave up. These were all parts interchangeable with the original etc etc. But were simply not up to par.
So if the reader wants to buy a percussion revolver what to do? I would buy or have it ordered from Cimarron and keep my fingers crossed till it arrived.
I would not buy from Cabela's or any other mass market outfit.
Ideally if I could find one of the 1st issue "second gen" Colts at a gunshow look it over and buy that. But this is still not an iron clad way to get a good one. The last "Colt" (these were assembled by H&R from imported Unberti parts) 1860 I had shot so high that even changing the front sight was futile since it needed to be VERY high.
So its a manure shoot. Pay your money and take your chances. There is a good chance it will be deficient is some way. The less it costs the more likely to be problematical.
The best C&B I ever owned and one of the best revolvers of any type I ever owned was a Western Arms full flute 1860 Army. Shot very well indeed needed a minimum of rehardening (Colts often do too) and I wish I had kept it. Western Arms, near as I can tell was very picky about the arms they accepted. I suspect that Cimarron is the current incarnation of this company but this is a guess.

So attempting to judge an 1850s-60s made C&B revolver by the performance of ANY of the replicas is an exercise in futility. One is made by people who really don't much care in a country 1000s of miles away. The other was made by a company that had at least some modicum of quality control and did not want there reputation tarnished since the firearms were at the time front line high tech self-defense weapons.
To give some insight. Colt made an early batch of their Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle's with faulty extractors. Worse they were the first ones shipped to Colorado and perhaps other places in the west where a working firearm was critical.
After this they practically could not give them away. Even though the mid-framed pistol cartridge version was fast and reliable and accurate. It was made by a MAJOR force in American firearms. They did not sell well after the bad batch went out. Somebody goofed. I suspect someone was looking for a job after this.
So companies that produced firearms that did not work did not last long or had other sources.
Some of the ones that DID work did not make it.
Colt had the large revolver market and Winchester the repeating rifle market. Everyone else was second fiddle at best.

So don't order a cheap C&B revolver or even an expensive one and think its as its as durable or reliable as what G.G.Grampa carried against the "darned" Yankees in the War of Northern Aggression or shot Rebels with during the "Rebellion" (depending).
Its "unlikely".

Dan
 
Dan Phariss said:
Since it obvious there is some confusion concerning C&B revolvers I thought I might point out a few things having been involved in owning, shooting and gunsmithing them since about 1965
For one, assuming that the average modern percussion revolver is in anyway as carefully made as an original Colt or Remington is delusional.

So unless things have changed recently:
First. They invariably come from a cottage industry system in Italy.
Dan


Are you seriously arguing that 1860's hand machining is better with tighter tolerances than CNC'd machining ( as utilized by Uberti and Pietta) ???

You make it sound like todays repros are made by cavemen who hope one day to discover fire.
 
garandman said:
Dan Phariss said:
Since it obvious there is some confusion concerning C&B revolvers I thought I might point out a few things having been involved in owning, shooting and gunsmithing them since about 1965
For one, assuming that the average modern percussion revolver is in anyway as carefully made as an original Colt or Remington is delusional.

So unless things have changed recently:
First. They invariably come from a cottage industry system in Italy.
Dan


Are you seriously arguing that 1860's hand machining is better with tighter tolerances than CNC'd machining ( as utilized by Uberti and Pietta) ???

You make it sound like todays repros are made by cavemen who hope one day to discover fire.

I agree with you 100% - the OP makes it sound as though Uberti is a couple of busted-thumb hicks bashing and scraping out the odd crappy ol' gun under an olive tree somwhere, instead of which it is actually part of Beretta - the world's OLDEST gumnakers still in the family. See - Uberti targets collectors, cowboy action shooters, and civil war skirmishers. Uberti also produce frames, cylinders, and barrels for several other companies like Beretta (their parent company), Cimarron Firearms, Taurus, Charles Daly, and Navy Arms.

A few facts would not go amiss here, rather than opinions, however strongly they are felt.

tac
 
All I know is that I'm generally pleased with my Italian revolvers. A couple have had issues but they were fixable.

Don
 
Heh, the only time I went to a pistol fight it was with a Navy Arms 1861. I still remember the look on the cops faces.
 
Have any of you gentlemen ever looked inside one of those fine CNC'ed Italian pistols? I have several of them and looking inside the race ways and machine cuts is like looking down a gopher hole in steel. Never mind the fact that when I first get them I take them apart and just throw away all the screws because the are so soft they’re almost worthless. And this is coming from a guy that likes Italian pistols and will buy more in the future.

The old Colts were hand fitted. Ubertis and Piettas are not. All of them require fitting of the arbors, a most critical part of the whole machine. I really am having a problem believing you have shot or worked on many Italian pistols.
 
Flash Pan Dan said:
I really am having a problem believing you have shot or worked on many Italian pistols.


Well, I own three of them, so yeah....yer having a problem.
 
I own an 1858 Remington Pietta C&B revolver. I have shot mine almost every weekend for almost a year, and I usually shoot it at least 200 times. I have never had a misfire or a cap jam. Not even one. I am very careful to load and cap it as best as I can. I honestly don't know how I managed to get a "good" one but the machining on mine is as good as on my S&W model 390 and I am very satisfied with my pistol. The hammer does not hit the nipples when I dry fire it,there is not a mark on them. I cannot speak for other guns, only mine.
Nilo52 :v
 
I'm just glad my Italian replicas purchased at a big box store (Cabela's/BassPro) cannot read English.

Also noticed, the thread title is "Percussion Revolvers." I fail to see any reference to what I consider the finest percussion revolver ever made, the Ruger Old Army.

Now if the the thread was titled Italian Replica Revolvers.......
 
Were any of you in the market for a new 1858 Remington from who would you purchase it?
I was initially under the belief that Uberti made about the best you could get. But I've heard that Pietta has closed the gap fairly well over the last few years.
I'm a bit interested in the 5 1/2" barrel version, which Uberti doesn't make.
 
rodwha said:
Were any of you in the market for a new 1858 Remington from who would you purchase it?
I was initially under the belief that Uberti made about the best you could get. But I've heard that Pietta has closed the gap fairly well over the last few years.
I'm a bit interested in the 5 1/2" barrel version, which Uberti doesn't make.


I've heard the same re: the gap between Pietta and Uberti. My sens e of it is IF I was buying an older, used gun, I'd buy Uberti. But as I understand it, Pietta went to CNC machining about 2000-something, and is cranking out pretty good stuff.

FWIW, I love my 5.5" Pietta. The 8" seems a little front end heavy... the 5.5" holds / points just about perfect, to me.
 
gl1200a said:
Also noticed, the thread title is "Percussion Revolvers." I fail to see any reference to what I consider the finest percussion revolver ever made, the Ruger Old Army.


CURSES!!!! Now you have me wanting a Ruger Old Army..... :haha:
 
The Ruger Old Army is a good gun, but before you run out and buy one you should know that they're no longer made, and replacement parts are apparently no longer available as I understand it.
 
Replacement parts can be had, but I'm uncertain as to what degree of parts. I recently bent my ROA base pin and looked around. A few people told me of 2 places that makes them. One charges $50 for a blued one, and the other was much more reasonable and offered it in stainless to match mine.

I must say that I really like mine. I need to spend more time at the range with it. And I intend on trying as many conicals/bullets as I can find. The 190 grn conicals I was given by a great fellow here worked quite well.
 
Colts made in the day were hand fitted because the had to be. A lot of other makers of the era made some really crude revolvers. Comparing either of them to CNC machining is really apples and oranges and is unfair going both directions.

The best made revolvers of the late 1800s were Merwin Hulberts (although not C&B).
 
Squirrel Tail said:
The Ruger Old Army is a good gun, but before you run out and buy one you should know that they're no longer made, and replacement parts are apparently no longer available as I understand it.


Any idea on the thread pattern of the nipples? That would be my primary concern for repalcement parts.
 
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