flintlock ignition trouble what do you think please help.

[Grenadier1758]

Ah, @Rawhide67, here we have the conflict between theory and practice. In theory it is possible to have a light charge of powder that doesn't fill the chamber and the ball sits on the junction of the threads of the breech plug leaving loose powder under the ball. The flame front from the pan flash should still ignite the powder. In practice, that chamber will probably hold less than 30 grains (volume of course) of powder. This is easy to measure. You know the length of the rod to the junction of the breech plug and barrel. Pour 50 grains of powder and drop the rod to see if the rod is seated above the unloaded rifle. It is unlikely that Ken isn't putting sufficient powder in the rifle.

I am curious that the jagged rod stops 2.3 inches short of the untipped rod. I would think that would be more like an inch, 5/8" approximately of threads and 3/8" approximately for the chamber to reach the touch hole. Get that part of the barrel above the chamber really cleaned out.

The 3Fg powder may be a little quicker than the 2FG powder but increasing the charge to 90 grains won't make it faster.

 

[adkmountainken]

nope did not mean to imply it would make it faster only take up more room if in fact what you had just mentioned is true, just trying to fill more of the void if one does exist.

 

[Erwan]

This touchhole looks like a Pedersoli but this is not the question.
IMHO, and after seeing the pictures, that hole seems to need a little cone to work right, not more...

 

[deerstalkert]

i have one flintlock that the only way i can be sure of ignition is to insert my vent pick the full width of the bore, close the frizzen on it, then load the powder, patch and ball, then pull the pick. why it works only the flintlock gods know.
sometimes we chase the complex when the simple will work.

 

[Brokennock]

i have one flintlock that the only way i can be sure of ignition is to insert my vent pick the full width of the bore, close the frizzen on it, then load the powder, patch and ball, then pull the pick. why it works only the flintlock gods know.
sometimes we chase the complex when the simple will work.

Yup, I use this method with one of my guns, I mentioned it earlier.
Only differences being I don't find a need to close my frizzen in the pic, and the gun does work most of the time without doing this,,,,, but it works all the time when I do leave the flash hole plugged through the loading process.

 

[CZMark]

To the OP: Go back and read post #17 on page 1 of this thread, especially the part about cleaning the patent breach with a 30 caliber brush.

 

[Erwan]

deerstalkert said:
i have one flintlock that the only way i can be sure of ignition is to insert my vent pick the full width of the bore, close the frizzen on it, then load the powder, patch and ball, then pull the pick. why it works only the flintlock gods know.
sometimes we chase the complex when the simple will work.

I have more with a Pedersoli Frontier, I have to keep the pan closed, put the powder charge, the patch, and the bullet, lower the bullet, put three grains of 4F in the pan, and .......... boom!
I have looked everywhere, changed the hole, looked with the endoscope and all is good, but I still have this ceremony otherwise it doesn't work. Never understood, but I have always to do like that...
This is my mystery rifle...

 

[Rawhide67]

To the OP: Go back and read post #17 on page 1 of this thread, especially the part about cleaning the patent breach with a 30 caliber brush.

Are you cleaning this way after every shot? Just curious, because if I had a gun requiring that, I'd make it work better or send it down the road. That doesn't add to my shooting pleasure to have to clean for 10 minutes after every shot. But, to each their own.

 

[adkmountainken]

i am with Rawhide on this simply becouse i do enjoy some range time and shooting my muzzleloaders BUT i am a hunter through and through every gun i own serves a HUNTING purpose and yes i COULD clean between shots in the field BUT i have had 2 seperate instances that requried @ quick follow up shots and thats what concernes me about cleaning between EVERY shot, at the range no problem in the woods not some muck. if i didnt love this gun and it fits me so good it would have been down the road...

 

[adkmountainken]

i much prefer flinters myself and have taken many deer and turkeys i enjoy the learning process that never ends lol

 

[painter]

If the flash hole doctoring doesn't work, you might consider getting one of Davec2 flushing kit. I use one for my flintlock. I don't have a patent breech, but this tool would be perfect for one.

http://luckybag.us/MagneticFlushTube.html

 

[adkmountainken]

ok now just to recap my buddy has opened up and coned the liner. the rifle is clean %100 again. i will take it to the range next Sunday and clean between shots ( not what i want to do ) and make sure everything is %100. now the IF this does not clear the problems up can this breech be replaced a custom made to fit new one?? to add inslut to injury after removing the barrel he has now discovered a small crack in the frame above the barrel channel towards the front AAARRGGGGGHHHHH.....this will now how to be addressed as well.

 

[Ragged Edge]

IF this does not clear the problems up can this breech be replaced a custom made to fit new one?? to add inslut to injury after removing the barrel he has now discovered a small crack in the frame above the barrel channel towards the front AAARRGGGGGHHHHH.....this will now how to be addressed as well.

Anything is possible IF you have access to a really good machinist. Just to be clear, your friend took the BP out of the barrel, right?

 

[adkmountainken]

yes he did and he is auctually a good machinist with lathe and other tools.

 

[Mzzlldrinpa]

My apologies if I missed it but, what type of patch lube and how much is being used? Is it possible that an over lubed patch is compounding the issue? Too much lube would cause an over abundance of fouling. Just another thought an a pile of great ideas.

 

[adkmountainken]

.018 patch with a 50/50 lube of mink oil and neats foot squeezed out of every patch not thick best lube I have ever used to reduce fouling

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

POWDAH - I’d use 3Fg in any ‘patent breech’ rifle of that caliber.

LOADING - SLAP … yes add a hard ‘slap’ against the side of the breech away from the touch hole to force loose 3FG powder down into that flash channel and then up against the interior of that touch hole.

TH SIZE - I’d drill it open > 1/16”, I always use the next size up, but I forget it right now, lol … and I’m away from my tools, and I wouldn’t want to steer you wrong by quoting a wrong size. Like others said I also chamfer the outside hole a touch.

TH PICK - Less is more! Some do it way too much and they end up actually pushing powder away from the vent! And this would be more likely to occur with the larger granulation 2Fg powder. Remember, all you really need to do here is to just make sure that the hole that you can see is ‘clear’ …

You might even try not picking the vent, as I shot 30-shots yesterday and never touched it all day, never swabbed the bore between shots either and had 100% ignition!

OTHER - Now this is my routine, and I fully understand that the NMLRA does not like it, but I would blow down the barrel, or even make use of a simple ~10” long 3/8” diameter clear plastic blow tube so your mouth is not on/over the barrel. See if you see smoke coming out the vent between shots, then you’ll know it’s clear. No reason to pick it!!!! Even just try this for a few shots …

 

[Rawhide67]

Anything is possible IF you have access to a really good machinist. Just to be clear, your friend took the BP out of the barrel, right?

Yes, I did. I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm not that dumb.

 

[jimairwin]

i have been having bad ignition problems with my .54 Hawken and at first i thought it was a bit of bad lock placement and a member on here did some fantastic work to correct it. went to the range today first 2 shots flawless then could not get ignition for the life of me! touch the flash hole with pick and can feel dry powder right where it should be flash hole is clear. priming with FFFF pan powder getting great ignition lot of fire. i am no flintlock expert BUT have shot a LOT. after looking over and over as well as before the continuing problem here i feel the vent liner and touch hole is just a tad to high and off center to the right. i have had worse then this with no problem BUT it is all i can come up with. barrel and breech were THOROUGHLY cleaned and dried, GREAT spark and flash, i am at a loss including pic's here. any ideas? forum member is now coning the vent liner for me and will try again. i think main priming charge maybe hitting slightly to the right of touchhole.

Pics show about perfect touch hole position. Coned from inside is better.
Are you wet-wiping between shots?
Always ream touch hole with dental root canal tool. Put a wire close to touch hole diameter and remove after ramming charge home. Dry flash channel with pipe cleaner.
All these things have worked for me.

Jim

 

[BadDaditood]

Any of my flinters without a touch hole liner ahead of the breech plug run Way better on 3f.