flint substitute

I remember reading on some long forgotten book that mountain men liked flintlocks and were reluctant to switch to caplocks. In not small part because that caplock needs caps, and if you run out you're royally fiddled. But a flintlock can make due with a rock harder than steel.
Is this true? And if it is, have you ever used a flint substitute?

Not sure about any old rock....but I'm sure they all knew of flint deposits to stock up their supply! Good point I've often pondered myself, and what if they got their caps contaminated by rain or an oily substance! :hmm: I'm sure they would carry an old flint lock as a spare? :idunno:

I'm not a historian, but i would think that the mountain men,pioneers were a smart lot and if they could afford a more reliable weapon per say, they would have scooped it up at first chance. I'm gonna open up a can of worms on this one, but let's be real... for the common man that never touched a weapon until he or she headed to the frontier, a caplock was an easier weapon to keep running. For an educated person either will run, give the proper attention.

PA Cope said:

I'm not a historian, but i would think that the mountain men,pioneers were a smart lot and if they could afford a more reliable weapon per say, they would have scooped it up at first chance. I'm gonna open up a can of worms on this one, but let's be real... for the common man that never touched a weapon until he or she headed to the frontier, a caplock was an easier weapon to keep running. For an educated person either will run, give the proper attention.

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If all goes well a cap lock is a bit more efficient than a flintlock, although I have seen lots of guns on the firing line with mis-fires in a cap lock. However, all things considered, I am sticking with flintlocks. For one thing, if you are in the wilderness and lose your can of caps or get them wet you are SOL until you either resupply or dry them out. With a flintlock, if you lose or break all your flints, you should be able to find a suitable substitute until you can re-supply. No English flint over here but it is possible to find other rock which can be shaped into a useable flint. If you get a flint wet, you can dry it off and use it immediately. Carrying enough flints and keeping them sharp alleviates the problem. I have also found that it is easier to clear a flintlock mis-fire than one in a cap lock. Also, in all the literature I have read, I have not run across any incidents where a flintlock was out of service for lack of flints. But maybe I have and have just forgotten. For the record, I have 9 flintlocks and 1 cap lock so I may be a bit biased. It is certain this will result in some comment from elsewhere so consider the can of worms opened.

if you know, what kind of rock would substitute? maybe quarts of some kind?

Chert, found, at least here in the southeast, in creek beds.
I've used it, works well but it tends to shatter.

mattybock said:

if you know, what kind of rock would substitute? maybe quarts of some kind?

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quarts will work, ive tried a piece and it worked for me albeit not great. then again it would probably have worked better if i had any knapping skills.

you can easily find quarts and chert in most streams and river beds. i imagine if your life depended on it you could become pretty good at knapping stone.

if i was gonna be cut off from civilization for long periods of time, i would choose the flintlock. caps are great and much more reliable then flint and steel. but caps arent easy to make which means ya gotta make a trip to town to get any in the advent you run out. even a novice, if required to do so could chip away at a piece of quartz till a usefull piece breaks off.

-matt

Agate is a flint substitute! MD

If quarts work, will gallons work better? Or pints for pistols? :idunno: :idunno:

mattybock said:

if you know, what kind of rock would substitute? maybe quarts of some kind?

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Quartz, Chert, agate, obsidian and a number of other minerals used by Native Americans for arrowheads and spear points, the names of which I do not recall. Just about anything that can be worked into the proper size and sharpened.

I am sure in this case quarts is meant to be quartz.

Chert is for all intents and purposes, flint, Anything that could be knapped to form an arrowhead could be knapped to make a gun flint. Quartz and obsidian would tend to shatter. Chert would be the likely frontier substitute.

To Ohio Ramrod,
I quart of Jack Daniels will do, But a pint will also do in a pinch :stir:
Fred

Flint in many forms if found all over North America. Chert is flint. Finding shooting quality could be problematic. Agate is a form of flint and works just fine.
Quartz does not work as a gun flint, I have tried. We have a lot of quartz deposits in Arkansas. It can be quite a bit harder than flint. Don't know why it doesn't make a spark but just reporting on what I have tried.
Have never tried obsidian but it is harder than flint.
Novaculite, also found in Arkansas, is a very good flint subsitute.
I don't know about other materials that might work. e.g. iron pyrites, etc. Just dunno. :idunno:

Rifleman1776 said:

Flint in many forms if found all over North America. Chert is flint. Finding shooting quality could be problematic. Agate is a form of flint and works just fine.
Quartz does not work as a gun flint, I have tried. We have a lot of quartz deposits in Arkansas. It can be quite a bit harder than flint. Don't know why it doesn't make a spark but just reporting on what I have tried.
Have never tried obsidian but it is harder than flint.
Novaculite, also found in Arkansas, is a very good flint subsitute.
I don't know about other materials that might work. e.g. iron pyrites, etc. Just dunno. :idunno:

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Novaculite was what I was trying to remember. A friend who is a flint napper makes knife blades, etc. from that. There are lots of substitutes available but you do need the skill necessary to turn the raw material into useable gun flints.

As a flintlock guy I'll take a flintlock any day of the week. But you have to remember when folks switched to caplocks they probably only carried 1 to 200 caps, maybe 20 or so on them and the rest on the pack horse or mule or back at camp. So the chances of them getting all their caps wet or other wise rendered useless were remote. They used them for game not to shoot targets so 1 to 200 caps would last a looong time. JMHO of course.

It is silly to speculate “what if's”. Because if you lost any of the components, flint or caps, and you are out in the wilderness, you are in deep trouble. I agree with you, they probably didn't keep their entire supply on their person.

Just a thought but flint was being used for some critical survival functions by both mountain men and Indian. Fire starting, shooting, flint arrows even scrapers and cutting edges. I would think in their routine dealings/trading/cheating with the natives flint could be acquired. After all the Indians also had flintlocks and needed a steady supply of flints. A plentiful powder supply might be more difficult to maintain. Just some ramblings by someone who doesn’t have an answer.

I have used a piece of quartz with a steel to get good sparks. Maybe it takes more force to create sparks with quartz which you can get with your hands, but not a lock. (?) Not sure though.

One of my favorite parts in the book "CARRY THE WIND," is when Scratch tells Josiah to get a flintlock instead of a caplock because you might run out of those little "nipple huggers." :grin: (when referring to percussion caps)

Kev

I really don't know what the prevailing feeling among those who were far from stores and other supply points was about the caplock versus the flintlock but it seems that the caplock was quickly accepted when it became available. Once the caplock became available, it quickly became the preferred type of lock. It didn't take long for many of the flintlock rifles to be changed to the new caplock. I'd say that the relatively short time it took for the changeover to occur would indicate that the trappers and mountian men took to them more quickly than we might think. They were, after all, more reliable and the caps were more readily available then many people think. But I wasn't there so I can't say for sure.

Anyone else remember the "Bonanza" episode when Lorne Green is being held prisoner, and breaks down a shotgun shell to load an old flintlock pistol? He can't get the flint to work, so just sticks a lit match into the pan. :rotf: