Why are shoulder stocks so popular on the replica 1860 Army and 3rd Model Dragoons?

Refer to my post #12

Dashing Leper said:

The critical difference between the 1851 and 1860 being nothing more than the size of the grips, right? Meaning that if you replace the grip with one to match the other, you could conceivably get a stock that should go onto either gun.

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No, the mounting screws and locations are different, as is the recoil shield machining on 1860 revolvers that are equipped for a stock. The stocks will not interchange. I wish that were not the case, as I would like to put my 1860 stock on one of my 1851 revolvers.

sourdough said:

Good luck finding a Dragoon stock. Pietta does not make them, and I have not found any evidence that Uberti ever made one. You might find an ASM on the used market but chances are slim to none for that, and if the seller knows what he has the price will be exorbitant. If you find one you will be the envy of me and several others looking for the same thing.

AFAIK, the only Italian manufacturer of Dragoon shoulder stocks was ASM in the early-mid 1970's. The stock furniture was blackened brass (early) and blackened steel (later). I believe they were primarily sold with a revolver and not separately.



Many ASM Dragoons were sold with long barrels and/or barrel-mounted 3-leaf rear sights.



This an ASM cased set, once part of the Dr. Davis collection, sold by October country about 6-7 months ago.



If you try to fit a Colt Type 3 1860 Army stock to a Dragoon you will be sorely disappointed. The Dragoon frame is much wider than the 1860 Army frame, and the Dragoon 4th screw position is much farther forward on its frame as compared to the 1860 Army frame.

Regards,

Jim

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I don’t recall what they were asking for the 18” Dragoon set (gunbroker) but I remember thinking it wasn’t out of line but by the time I had decided to do something about it it was gone...

B P Arn said:

No, the mounting screws and locations are different, as is the recoil shield machining on 1860 revolvers that are equipped for a stock. The stocks will not interchange. I wish that were not the case, as I would like to put my 1860 stock on one of my 1851 revolvers.

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Not so.

My Pietta 1851 Navy 4-screw CFS (AZ/1990) with a Navy gripframe.



My ASM 1860 Army 4-screw CFS (BD/1994).



The same Navy with an 1860 Army gripframe.



The same shoulder stock on both.

Regards,

Jim

OK, thank you, I stand corrected. I had not seen 1851 revolvers set up like that, only with the extended hammer screw that protrudes from both sides, with the stock mounting on those.

I would like to find an 1851 set up like yours.

I just am not seeing the appeal.

Reports from those who've fired them seem to universally say they put the gun too close to the face and blowback and spray from the caps are a real issue. Then, they say accuracy is barely improved if at all.

Seems like a poor way to spend $300 for something that is best used as a display item.

Probably not for you then ?

Smokey Plainsman said:

I just am not seeing the appeal.

Reports from those who've fired them seem to universally say they put the gun too close to the face and blowback and spray from the caps are a real issue. Then, they say accuracy is barely improved if at all.

Seems like a poor way to spend $300 for something that is best used as a display item.

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I keep my eyes open for a good one at a reasonable price. Someday I might want to hunt deer with an 1860 on a shoulder stock. I have eye protection I can wear.

I’m slightly worried about a cap fragment lodgin under my skin or powder burns. Imagine how heartbreaking it would be to spoil my youthful handsome face! Why, ladies for miles around would be devastated! They know I’m married and happily too but everyone can dream can’t they?

Smokey Plainsman said:

I just am not seeing the appeal.

Reports from those who've fired them seem to universally say they put the gun too close to the face and blowback and spray from the caps are a real issue. Then, they say accuracy is barely improved if at all.

Seems like a poor way to spend $300 for something that is best used as a display item.

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Hard to believe, but there are some folks that don’t see the appeal in muzzleloaders...... reports are they make a lot of smoke and they require cleaning after even one shot. Though to many on this forum those are some of the selling points.

Appeal aside, its made a dandy of a thread! Special thanks to the OP for starting it, though I'm hardly a big 'fan' of cap and ball pistol stocks I do find them an interesting topic, from both historical and collectable standpoints.
Col. Colt was not the first to conceive of an extended pistol stock he certainly saw it as a unique 'extra', particualrly in cased sets. One can debate the shooting practicality of such but there's no debate about its historical context.
Interesting too, the lack of reproduction examples in the marketplace. There's no doubt there's some interest in them as this thread alone proves. But I'm prepared to perhaps never find one for my Dragoon. I'm suspect that if I ever do I'll attach it once or twice, shoot it, remove it and put it on the shelf. But for the above stated reasons I do find the topic interesting.

Here are a few early others w/ shoulder stocks;

B P Arn said:

I had not seen 1851 revolvers set up like that, only with the extended hammer screw that protrudes from both sides, with the stock mounting on those.

I would like to find an 1851 set up like yours.

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I am a big fan of Pietta Navies, but Pietta has not made an 1851 Navy 4-screw CFS since they started using CNC-machined parts ~2001. But, Pietta does some strange, non-sensical things sometimes. To wit:

Pietta markets an 1861 Navy 4-screw CFS (partially): the recoil shields are cut but the blued steel backstrap does not have the aperture on the bottom for the J-hook. Go figure! If you have some money burning a hole in your pants pocket (DGW has at least one in stock @$335), you could purchase a Pietta 1851 Navy brass backstrap from VTI or Taylor's with the aperture. Might look a bit odd, but...

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...RH0841+PIETTA++MODEL+1861+NAVY+REVOLVER+36+CA
Regards,

Jim

Sourdough, I already have a Colt 1860 Second Generation, and a stock for it. I would like to get an 1851 style revolver with a steel frame and with the cutouts that would work with an 1860 stock. Your suggestion would give me a .36 caliber 1860, but I am looking for an 1851.

My understanding it that there is a stock that will fit an 1851 or Remington NMA with extended hammer screws. I would be happy to find one of these.

I don't understand why there is the variety of 1851 and 1860 revolvers out there that have some, but not all of the machining for a stock.

Here is a picture of my Belgian made Centauer revolver with the recoil shield machined for a stock, but no 4th screws, and no notch in the bottom of the grip frame.


My 1860 Colt with everything needed for mounting a stock...



Finally, my Cimarron Uberti 1851, with no machining at all for a stock. I would like to put a stock on this gun. Am I correct in thinking that the stock for this gun would only require the extended hammer screws and a (preferably made of steel) grip frame with a notched bottom? No machine work necessary to the recoil shield? Is anyone still making a stock that will work? Would that same stock also work on my Pietta NMA (which also has no machine work for a stock) with the proper extended hammer screws?

Sorry for all the questions.

Woodnbow said:

...I’m slightly worried about a cap fragment lodgin under my skin or powder burns. Imagine how heartbreaking it would be to spoil my youthful handsome face! Why, ladies for miles around would be devastated!...

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Yes, that is a serious risk, and one with which I am also burdened.

LOLOL!!!

B P Arn said:

Yes, that is a serious risk, and one with which I am also burdened.

LOLOL!!!

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We must think of the womenfolk...

I was searching online today when I found a guy selling an original Colt 1860 Army along with a reproduction shoulder stock as a set. I wrote him to inquire if I might be willing to sell the stock separately, he replied if it was worth his while he'd consider it. I asked what price that might be not knowing what dollar ammount was 'worth his while'. He replied with just this, no verbiage, no explanation... " 600.00."
Now I don't know about you fellers but that seemed a bit high for an Italian made 1860 shoulder stock.

jonathan butcher said:

One of the things that confused me has always been their real world viability, particualrly on horseback. Anyone here who has ridden a horse, imagine trying to install the 1860 stock while galloping.

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But the majority of time isn't spent galloping.

Why issue mess kits? Have you ever tried eating beans while galloping on a horse? Even drinking from a canteen while at the trot is difficult (without bashing your teeth in). Still, it is handy to have a canteen.

$600 is definitely a little optimistic! A nice used one would probably be worth about $300.

jonathan butcher said:

I was searching online today when I found a guy selling an original Colt 1860 Army along with a reproduction shoulder stock as a set. I wrote him to inquire if I might be willing to sell the stock separately, he replied if it was worth his while he'd consider it. I asked what price that might be not knowing what dollar amount was 'worth his while'. He replied with just this, no verbiage, no explanation... " 600.00."
Now I don't know about you fellers but that seemed a bit high for an Italian made 1860 shoulder stock.

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Did you see a photo of it?

I agree if the repro stock the guy is selling is a modern run-of-the-mill Pietta wood. However, I have found a few 20th century stocks that are worth considerably more than $300, one of which I own. The wood is dark stained tiger stripe maple. I challenge anyone here to come up with a similar stock, and I paid only $450 for the entire cased set. I think it's worth $900.

JoJoLesh said:

Have you ever tried ... drinking from a canteen while at the trot is difficult (without bashing your teeth in). Still, it is handy to have a canteen.

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Not making fun of your post. Colt actually produced canteen type 1860 Army shoulder stocks that consisted of a metal canteen container sandwiched between two hollowed out stock halves. Very rare and worth quite a bit of $$$.

Regards,

Jim

That’s a very handsome set to be sure! The original 1860 was in VG condition and the Italian stock was equally aged. Honestly it looked terrific, just a bit overpriced. Had it been $400-$450 shipped I might have given it more than a moments thought. At times I’ve over spent on a thing when I was certain I’d never trade/ sell. In that way price becomes secondary.
I like your cased set arrangement, it’s the best way to enjoy that handsome shoulder stock beyond a once a year trip to the range.