Correcting Uberti Short Arbors?

Zonie · Mar 19, 2021

Mkpatrick: Using the picture SDSmlf provided, install the barrel like he shows.
Measure the overlap distance shown in the picture.
The result is the thickness of the spacer you need to buy to solve the problem.

As for the face of the cylinder and the back of the barrel fit, that is a function of the frame length and the length of the cylinder. Left untouched, the spring that engages the hand with the ratchet will push the cylinder forward so that it stops on the barrel. The 'gap" will only show up if you push the cylinder rearward.

The amount of the gap really isn't terribly important as long as it is greater than a few thousandths. If it is too small, the cylinder will bind up when it's forward face becomes covered with black powder fouling.

M. De Land · Mar 19, 2021

Smokey Plainsman said:
Can anyone give some good, permanent recommendations for fixing the short arbors on the Uberti cap and balls?

I don’t have access to a drill press or anything crazy. Maybe it’s best to just send it to a gunsmith? I am heavily interested in an Uberti fluted cylinder 1860 Army .44 but do not at all like the wonky wedge and arbor setup they have. I experienced that issue several years ago on one of their Navy’s.

Thanks!

-Smokey

If you check any revolver, modern or antique, with a feeler gauge (barrel gap) you will find they are almost never equal distant around the clock. This is especially true of any open frame percussion gun. Also at discharge it (gap) will not be perfectly square as the ball hits the forcing cone and the gun flexes. The trick is to get the forward pressure equalized horizontally on the wedge and slots , and vertically from the lower lug fit. The pins in the lug and the wedge handle torsion from bullet twist inertia. Once these pressure stops are fit/ equalized as best that can be made then the sights should be regulated to point of impact with a standard load.

nkbj · Mar 19, 2021

Rather than building up with JB Weld I was thinking about using it to secure the shimming metal spacer. But thinking about it... darn if a JB Weld build up might not be a better mouse trap.

Bad Karma · Mar 19, 2021

nkbj said:
Rather than building up with JB Weld I was thinking about using it to secure the shimming metal spacer. But thinking about it... darn if a JB Weld build up might not be a better mouse trap.

I did it on one of mine. Like @M. De Land , I’m not convinced it’s necessary strictly speaking but I had to try it. The JB Weld button was quick and easy. It’s held up for a year and a couple thousand rounds of full power loads behind a 195 grain bullet.

M. De Land · Mar 19, 2021

Woodnbow said:
I did it on one of mine. Like @M. De Land , I’m not convinced it’s necessary strictly speaking but I had to try it. The JB Weld button was quick and easy. It’s held up for a year and a couple thousand rounds of full power loads behind a 195 grain bullet.

Like me, your guns shot just fine without having the arbor well filled with shims ,buttons, adjustable screws or epoxy. Folks seem to forget that the pressure load at firing ( when it matters) is in the opposite direction of the arbor end but is on the arbor slot which is weakened by drilling and or tapping for an adjustment screw or button stem.

mkpatrick · Mar 19, 2021

The closest I could find in washers was just over .032.
The gap I measured here on the CVA Colt Walker was .012. So I will have to do some filing. How to file a washer that small evenly I have not schemed for yet.
I looked at every gun store in the Spokane area for JB bore paste as one of the posters suggested I use on the barrel. I'll have to order online.
I'll work on this filing tomorrow.

Anyone else have Walkers? How much charge is recommended used when firing ball? Whats the max?

I took apart my Pietta Colt Navy and there appears to be no need for a shim on that!
So that is nice.
Anyone else have a Pietta 44 Colt Navy? What charge is recommended there? I plan to shoot for 25 to 50 yards.

Thanks so much for all this advice so far!

Mike

No second place · Mar 19, 2021

Smokey Plainsman said:
Can anyone give some good, permanent recommendations for fixing the short arbors on the Uberti cap and balls?

I don’t have access to a drill press or anything crazy. Maybe it’s best to just send it to a gunsmith? I am heavily interested in an Uberti fluted cylinder 1860 Army .44 but do not at all like the wonky wedge and arbor setup they have. I experienced that issue several years ago on one of their Navy’s.

Thanks!

-Smokey

Went to Dixie G.W. in 2019 to hand select a few Colts and Remmys to possibly use in NMLRA/ NRA matches in the 6+ hours I was there I examined (bore lights, Mag. glass, cleaning, Dial calipers) over 25 guns 51s,61s,60s and 62 Police (Uberti). Both Uberti and Pietta quality was far better than typical than expected. Prices were similar enough then. Pietta bore and cylinder were all better than Uberti. All the Pietta actions needed less tuning to be match ready. Only new 2019 purchase used in matches was the Pietta 1860 Colt (after tuning). Results were H.M gold Spring 2019 NRA sponsored NMLRA Nationals (four targets 25 and 50 yards). New Pietta 2019 .44 1858 is an amazing low cost match pistol after light tuning. First practice target after sight in at 50 yards beat my/the Nmlra National current record by 2 Xs. Ordered extra cylinders for that 1859 Pietta .Now have 5 percussion cylinders and a unmentionable conversion. All drop in fit, same dimensions says my dial caliper. Pleased with new Pietta quality control.I do agree though that for a display item Uberti are better overall...c

Sam squanch · Mar 19, 2021

Clamp a block of wood in your vise, and select a nail that the washer will just slip over, cut the head off first. Hammer the nail in the wood block facing up. Then place the washer over the nail. File away on the washer and nail to desired thickness.

barracudadave67 · Mar 20, 2021

I fix my short arbors on my Uberti open tops, buy soldering on brass shim stock to the end of the arbor.
You can always reheat it later, and take it off if you want.
Dave

B P Arn · Mar 20, 2021

To the question above regarding how much powder to use with a lead ball in a repro Walker; I have used 60 grains of 3F, but it becomes difficult to seat the ball properly, so I have reduced my load to 55 grains.

That load provides a very satisfying sound when fired!

B P Arn · Mar 20, 2021

I looked at every gun store in the Spokane area for JB bore paste as one of the posters suggested I use on the barrel. I'll have to order online....
[/QUOTE]

No JB paste is used in adjusting an arbor! Someone reported using JB Weld, which is a high strength epoxy.

springfield art · Mar 20, 2021

Phil Coffins said:
The shaft that the cylinder revolves on is called the arbor.

So that's what Arbor Day is about!

1861colt · Mar 21, 2021

I know gapping is better in many ways, but mine is locked in to the gap the gun was made with. Right now the wedge can bring the cylinder in to a good gap, but it is tilted with the top of the cylinder closer to the barrel than the bottom of the chamber making a slight wedge gap. I would need to file the bottom of the frame back, but the serial number is stamped there and I don't want to take that down. The barrel pins don't want to come out without deforming them, so I live with it.

sourdough · Mar 21, 2021

If the wedge is able to discern the B/C gap, whether or not if the barrel is "tilted", the arbor is not bottoming into the arbor recess. You are using the wedge to determine things. The sole purpose of the wedge is to lock the frame, arbor, and barrel into one solid unit. That is the true starting point. Repair that. Now check to see if the barrel is "tilted" and I will bet it is not.

Once that problem is rectified check the B/C gap. If too close (less than .001"), remove enough material from the forcing cone for a .002"-.004" gap. If it is larger than .006", remove .002" from the rear of the barrel lug. You won't lose any part of the serial number.

If you would have started with a Pietta you would not have to be concerned with the proper arbor fit. Yeah, Ubertis have a better finish but Piettas are shooters right out of the box.

Why would you want the barrel pins to come out/be removed? Why do you think that so much steel would have to be removed so as to eat into the serial number? We are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch at most.

Get the main problem fixed and everything else is easy.

Regards,

Jim

wb78963 · Mar 21, 2021

A competent gunsmith reconnended a quick "fix" is a #10 split (lock) washer dropped in the arbor hole. Usually that tightens things up.
Of course the best fix is a Pietta but too late for that.
Now this short arbor horse is about beaten to death.
Hold center
Hit center
That is the plan
Bunk

SDSmlf · Mar 21, 2021

wb78963 said:
A competent gunsmith reconnended a quick "fix" is a #10 split (lock) washer dropped in the arbor hole. Usually that tightens things up.
Of course the best fix is a Pietta but too late for that.
Now this short arbor horse is about beaten to death.
Hold center
Hit center
That is the plan
Bunk

A split washer is not going to provide a solid stop unless totally compressed. Barrel to frame fit would be dependent on how hard you drive the wedge in. Bet the competent gunsmith doesn’t specialize in cap and ball Colt style revolvers.

B P Arn · Mar 21, 2021

Just find a washer the diameter of your arbor (or smaller), fasten the washer to the arbor with JB Weld, then file the washer to the proper thickness. Works every time.

B P Arn · Mar 24, 2021

^^^ Do NOT use a split washer. EVER! I don't know how that idea ever got started, but use a regular steel flat washer.

M. De Land · Mar 24, 2021

1861colt said:
I know gapping is better in many ways, but mine is locked in to the gap the gun was made with. Right now the wedge can bring the cylinder in to a good gap, but it is tilted with the top of the cylinder closer to the barrel than the bottom of the chamber making a slight wedge gap. I would need to file the bottom of the frame back, but the serial number is stamped there and I don't want to take that down. The barrel pins don't want to come out without deforming them, so I live with it.

Actually that is not a bad thing as when the gun fires and the ball hits the forcing cone in the barrel breech that gap will be different than it is at rest. None of them( even in solid frame revolvers) are perfectly square with the end of the barrel at rest or especially when firing. You can easily verify this with a feeler gauge for yourself. The trick is to get this as level/square and solid as possible and then regulate the sights to point of impact with a standard load. I make my own wedges out of tool steel and then harden them. The barrel and arbor slots are then fit to the wedge which stabilizes the horizontal axis. The lower barrel lug is set up in my lathe between centers and the lower lug is turned square to the bore. This adjusts the vertical ball impact. When both axis are square and solid then the sights are filed to a six o'clock point of impact on target bull or for game shooting.
The reason for the six o'clock sight regulation is because it will give you the best vertical definition on target or game and not cover any portion of either.
I fit the slots to a properly shaped and hardened wedge not the wedge to the existing slots that may or may not be level with one another.
In open frame guns the wedge and slot fit handle the horizontal and the lower lug fit handles the vertical.

denster · Mar 24, 2021

M. De Land said:
Actually that is not a bad thing as when the gun fires and the ball hits the forcing cone in the barrel breech that gap will be different than it is at rest. None of them( even in solid frame revolvers) are perfectly square with the end of the barrel at rest or especially when firing. You can easily verify this with a feeler gauge for yourself. The trick is to get this as level/square and solid as possible and then regulate the sights to point of impact with a standard load. I make my own wedges out of tool steel and then harden them. The barrel and arbor slots are then fit to the wedge which stabilizes the horizontal axis. The lower barrel lug is set up in my lathe between centers and the lower lug is turned square to the bore. This adjusts the vertical ball impact. When both axis are square and solid then the sights are filed to a six o'clock point of impact on target bull or for game shooting.
The reason for the six o'clock sight regulation is because it will give you the best vertical definition on target or game and not cover any portion of either.
I fit the slots to a properly shaped and hardened wedge not the wedge to the existing slots that may or may not be level with one another.
In open frame guns the wedge and slot fit handle the horizontal and the lower lug fit handles the vertical.

All of this work and you can't spend five minutes correcting the arbor length. I guess I just don't understand the feeler gauge fetish and the desire for a flexible firer????

Correcting Uberti Short Arbors?

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