Tennessee changes its definition of a muzzleloader

For as long as I can remember the definition was #1. It never was perfect and ultimately allowed for almost all modern muzzleloaders including the use of even smokeless powder. I suspect Traditions lobbying efforts has paid off in a big way for them....no proof but just my opinion. Now its #2 which doesn't allow the use of the "projectile(s)"being loaded from the breech. Notice, in the same respect, the powder is not mentioned.

Just a side note....using the new definition the Ferguson flintlock rifle is still not be allowed.

1. Muzzleloading firearms are defined as those firearms which are incapable of being loaded from the breech.

2. Muzzleloading firearms are defined as those firearms in which a projectile (rifle) or projectiles (shotgun) must be loaded from the muzzle (front) end of the barrel and the firearm being of design and manufacture that prevents the projectile(s) from being loaded from the breech (rear) end.

I don't like the change. Sounds like you could have a bolt action chambered for a "blank" cartridge that was a bit under bore size, with powder & primer cap in a pre loaded brass case. Meets the letter of the (new) law but nothing else. Seems most of the manufacturers have no interest in making a traditional muzzleloader but only want to do the minimum possible tweaking of their modern breechloaders.

Maybe NMLRA could lobby states for a ruling using a definition such as that used on this website.

There's new model (Firestick?) Where the bullet goes down the muzzle, but the propellant goes in the breech like a cartridge. The shooter can remove the charge without pulling the bullet.

It's a legal wording change to allow the Firestick "muzzleloader" for hunting. I like Traditions. I really do. But this Firestick business is bad news.

Penna. has a Blackpowder season and a Primitive season. No inline during primitive season. I personally think Inlines should not be allowed in Blackpowder season. It defeats the entire reason for the season. Inlines are for those who just like to kill things IMHO, Why? make them legal only during regular season and see how fast the wannabes drop them and go to a reg. rifle! Time to weed out the non believers and fakers (IMHO). Blackpowder season should be for traditional, true muzzle loading, firearms. No Sharps, Smith carbines, Rolling Blocks etc or Winchesters using BP cartridges. Just one mans opinion.

Virginia's muzzleloader definitions are ridiculous. You see rifles during the season that look just like a modern firearm: synthetic stock, stainless steel, optical sights, etc. It just happens to load from the muzzle, so it is legal. They even allow smokeless powder for those "muzzleloaders" that are designed for it.

No interest in history. No interest in the skills. No interest in our heritage. Just a two-week head start on the regular deer season, nothing more.

It's all about the revenue.

1950DAVE said:

Maybe NMLRA could lobby states for a ruling using a definition such as that used on this website.

Click to expand...

NMLRA, as with any 501(c) cannot lobby…

Harry Pope used this design of loading a projectile thru the muzzle of his Breechloader in the late 1800’s.
Noting new, but it’s a Breechloader.

Snake Pleskin said:

Penna. has a Blackpowder season and a Primitive season. No inline during primitive season. I personally think Inlines should not be allowed in Blackpowder season. It defeats the entire reason for the season. Inlines are for those who just like to kill things IMHO, Why? make them legal only during regular season and see how fast the wannabes drop them and go to a reg. rifle! Time to weed out the non believers and fakers (IMHO). Blackpowder season should be for traditional, true muzzle loading, firearms. No Sharps, Smith carbines, Rolling Blocks etc or Winchesters using BP cartridges. Just one mans opinion.

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For my own part I regard all such cheaters to get round the hunting regs as an abomination .I wouldnt rule out such as the Ferguson they don't offer any great advantage and are historic however flawed the principle.
In NZ there are no seasons or limits or any boughten liscence tag ect. All four legged creatures , not domestic (or Tuataras) are deemed introduced pests & officially' Noxieus animals 'We think the same of some politions as well but their not on the pest list. Pity. Accordingly there is NO need of the cheater 's inline's .And yes I am aware there where Some flint lock' inlines in effect' but they where still muzzle loaded and exceedindly rare .
Rudyards two pennorth on inlines

52Bore said:

NMLRA, as with any 501(c) cannot lobby…

Harry Pope used this design of loading a projectile thru the muzzle of his Breechloader in the late 1800’s.
Noting new, but it’s a Breechloader.

Click to expand...

Agree but its not really the point he wasn't out to curcumvent the regulations or cock a snook at fair play .
Regards Rudyard

52Bore said:

NMLRA, as with any 501(c) cannot lobby…

Click to expand...

Here is what IRS has to say. And be sure to read the two " additional information" items at the bottom of the page.
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/lobbying

I'll bet "they" sold the State on the "safety" of being able to pull the charge quickly and easily.

Not related to hunting, but what about screw barrel pistols? Where the barrel is screwed off, exposing the breech.....powder poured into breech; ball set on top and then the barrel screwed back on over the ball/powder load. External priming on a cone under hammer. What about ALL of the other breech loading black powder arms that were around? No one really makes any reproductions of these and I guess the originals would be classified as Antiques.

Jason60chev said:

Not related to hunting, but what about screw barrel pistols? Where the barrel is screwed off, exposing the breech.....powder poured into breech; ball set on top and then the barrel screwed back on over the ball/powder load. External priming on a cone under hammer. What about ALL of the other breech loading black powder arms that were around? No one really makes any reproductions of these and I guess the originals would be classified as Antiques.

Click to expand...

Just an FYI-
Pedersoli makes a popular screw barrel pistol complete with folding trigger. Outside of the modern looking wrench, it arguably is one of their more HC/PC firearms.

When PA recodified it's game laws about 1982, it made all kinds of historic guns illegal for most hunting.. Fergusons, Halls, Green and Sharps percussion breech loaders became illegal for hunting (except groundhogs and coyotes) They recently permitted as muzzle loaders, breech loaders using loose powder and projectile. Which effectively still prohibits the firestick.

Adding to the confusion was the fact that cap and ball revolvers were "probably" also made illegal for hunting because only centerfire, rimfire or muzzle loader rifles were legal for game hunting. They fell into a never never land. In the space of three weeks the game commission issued opiions that cap and ball revolvers were muzzle loaders, but needed to be a minimum of 50 caliber for deer or under 40 caliber for small game, then said they do not load from the muzzle and are only legal for ground hogs and coyotes, and in a thrid opinion, said they are 'similar to centerfire and come under centerfire rules" (My older Remington cap tin says labels percussion caps as centerfire. So I also took the position that they were centerfire. I'd like to see a conservation officer prove that he knows more than Remington about what is centerfire.) However, a cap and ball revolver, while it loads with loose powder and ball, it does not load through the breech, so still not legal as a muzzle loader. Things get so wacked when bureaucrats have a say in the matter.

So is a 1858 NMA or any of the other revolvers (or clone thereof) a muzzle loader then?

Posted an answer while typing....

It won’t be long before Tennessee allows straight walled cartridges during ML season like some other southern states. I’d like to see a general deer season put into effect. Set an overall bag limit and any weapon goes. Then you could use whatever weapon you prefer whenever you want to use it.

So the way things seem to work in legal circles these days is a very small percentage of the population begins a rant over some issue of cause and they seem to get accommodated. My bet is the only person in Tennessee owning a Ferguson rifle solicited the change....Lol

Ferguson rifle - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_rifle

The problem in PA, was that the ferguson rifle was legal for deer hunting until about 1982. So were cap and ball revolvers, percussion Sharps and even rim fire rifles over 25 caliber. Also match lock and wheel lock firearms were legal for deer. So the legiscritters who knew nothing of the technology of firearms passed new laws and limited deer hunting to centerfire, shot gun and muzzle loaders, but only those of percussion and flint ignition. They later opened up the muzzle loader definition to primer ignition. Still illegal for any deer season: wheel locks, match locks, fergusons, Sharps, rim fires over 25, etc. NOT even legal in the regular firearms season for deer. they have changed the rules slightly, but many guns that were legal until 1982 are still not legal here. Frankly, I knew a few folks who still hunted deer with rim fires. until made illegal. (41 Swiss rim fire is about on par with the 30-30 for killing power) and 32 rim fire was still available in the 1970's although a pain to get. The problem was that the guns could not be used at all for any hunting in any season. Not just that only one guy had one. (there are several) Double barrel muzzle loader rifles are still illegal for deer in PA.