Weighing Swaged Round Balls

French Colonial · Jan 7, 2023

The lighter balls will shoot a little higher due to the increased velocity and the heavier ones a little lower.

Just before you load them heft them a little and then shoot higher or lower based on how they weigh. :ThankYou:

Howard Pippin · Jan 7, 2023

tenngun said:
I have never weighed a ball. I inspect for waves, frosty or visible holes, about 20% give or take
But
I’m going to bet it’s the same or maybe worse than swagged. However…
You buy a box you have a hundred ball.
You run a hundred ball and maybe forty are in your limits as weight.
So you drop sixty back in the pot. In an hour you have another hundred to go through.
What do you do with the ones not up to par from bought ball.
Track doesn’t want them back.
You can make two piles. One for plinking one for hunting and ‘blood shooting’ , but all in all you buy a box you’re stuck with a box.
You run your own you only have ones that fit your limit.
Honestly, you pour powder in to a measure, do you fill exactly the same, with in three grains? You grease your patch, are they all the same? Ram home your ball. Do you get the same pressure… within ounces?
You sight over plain iron. How perfect is your sight picture? How perfect is your ignition? Even nipple huggers vary. Cold your barrel is smaller than warm.
You swab between shots, but how clean is your bore by the second shot, or the tenth.
Constancy is the key, ask the ghost of the late Dutch Schultz. But in the final watch are you as consistent that five grain, 2% difference in a .50 enough to change your shooting if you don’t make any other mistakes in loading?

Life is a system of variables, but when I'm hunting or even doing good target shooting there's only Three factors that I can be sure of; That my balls weigh as close as they can to eliminate that causing an inaccurate shot, that my power is as close between loads as I can possibly do under those conditions, and that my rifle is sighted in as close as I humanly can. Even then These three things might not be right, but if I miss, it probably is me.
Squint

necchi · Jan 7, 2023

wganz said:
What is the deviation on the cast ball weight?

There is a learning curve when a person begins casting, it's not a long one but there are things to learn in practice that leads to proficiency.
That said, My acceptable deviation is ball within a 1grn window (+/- .5grn of average)
I usually get a cull rate of less than 15% per run, the neat thing is those that are out, just go back in the pot.

wganz · Jan 7, 2023

French Colonial said:
The lighter balls will shoot a little higher due to the increased velocity and the heavier ones a little lower.

Just before you load them heft them a little and then shoot higher or lower based on how they weigh.

Interesting in that I was expecting the heavier bullets to print higher due leaving the barrel later in its recoil with the muzzle being higher at the instant the bullet exits the muzzle. This is quite obvious when switching from 125 to 200 grain cast bullets in a .38 Special 4” revolver. May be an apples to celery comparison though.

nhmoose · Jan 7, 2023

First ask yourself do I shoot good enough to weigh the balls? If you shoot regally 50-5x on a 1-inch x-ring, then I would say weigh the balls. If not, why bother in real life it will be futile and wasted time.

necchi · Jan 7, 2023

nhmoose said:
First ask yourself do I shoot good enough to weigh the balls?

That's the reality,, Thank you,,

SDSmlf · Jan 8, 2023

nhmoose said:
First ask yourself do I shoot good enough to weigh the balls? If you shoot regally 50-5x on a 1-inch x-ring, then I would say weigh the balls. If not, why bother in real life it will be futile and wasted time.

Great thought process. Second, ask yourself do I shoot good enough to need a rifled bore? Third, do I shoot good enough to need sights on my gun? Forth, ask if I shoot good enough to even need a gun? Maybe I would do better with a pointed stick or throwing a rock?

Personally, I want a gun that shoots better than me. I want to know when I miss it is because of me and not the gun or the load. I am perfectly happy wasting my time honing my skills when I know my gun shoots better than me. But that’s just me.

French Colonial · Jan 8, 2023

wganz said:
Interesting in that I was expecting the heavier bullets to print higher due leaving the barrel later in its recoil with the muzzle being higher at the instant the bullet exits the muzzle. This is quite obvious when switching from 125 to 200 grain cast bullets in a .38 Special 4” revolver. May be an apples to celery comparison though.

That was all very tongue in cheek

nhmoose said:
First ask yourself do I shoot good enough to weigh the balls? If you shoot regally 50-5x on a 1-inch x-ring, then I would say weigh the balls. If not, why bother in real life it will be futile and wasted time.

And this is the truth no one wants to admit, yeah, I like a gun that shoots better than me to but unless your a bench shooter most will never realize the potential. And I have weighed different projectiles while being anal in different shooting sports, it made NO difference. To many other variables.

Art Caputo · Jan 8, 2023

Some years back I did quite a bit of testing of the variation effects of weight differences with both swaged(Hornady) and cast LRB’s as(well as the effects of powder weight variations of weighed vs volume measured charges). With a goal of maintaining 1-2MOA@ 50 yards using a bench rest with my open sighted ML rifles used for casual target and hunting, I found that variations of +/- 2gr of round ball or powder weight with calibers of 45, 50, and 58 resulted in no material effect on accuracy or trajectory with actual shooting results, or the ballistics output for trajectories/wind drift using a ballistic calculator. Like others,I have found that a 100ct box of Hornady swaged LRB’s usually have 3-6 balls in a box that fall outside the range of +/- 1gr in weight, but I no longer bother to isolate these balls….And…continue to a use a volume based measure to weigh powder charges. IMO, given an optimized load with a good barrel, the type/design of open sights and target acquisition has far more influence on accuracy with a typical, traditional ML then a couple of grain variation in LRB or charge weight. .

Bullit · Jan 8, 2023

I've found that when casting, no matter whether you get a good rhythm, pour from the same melt, use a double iron mold, good pre-warmed mold, clean mold, right temp, etc.,etc., you are always going to have some variances. At least I do. The best is a single cavity iron mold, all the above being correct, even then I weigh them out to get the closest I can. It may not matter for a twenty yard shot but I always want to hit where I aim for, regardless. Definitely I weigh the swaged and a bunch go back into the pot to be poured into my Lee 1/2 and 1 lb mold. If I'm casting for plinking stuff at tin cans and such for a fun day of shooting with family, then I use the 6 cavity mold and don't worry about weighing, but for sighting in and hunting, I always weigh.

Shiloh · Jan 8, 2023

I always was under the impression that swaged was better than cast as far as consistency. These threads are wonderful sources of information.

Lynnhawk · Jan 8, 2023

Grimord said:
When i cast balls for my BP guns I go by the following rules: for 45 caliber and smaller, the balls must be within 1/2 grain of the average. For 50 caliber and larger they must be within 1 grain of the average. I have found that balls that vary by 2-3 grains from the average tend to shoot to a far different point of impact that the balls within the tolerance levels.

Well said…totally agree…!!

david w · Jan 8, 2023

TDM said:
That’s what Dutch Schoultz says too. 2 grains difference is too much, even for causal shooting.

My experience tells me that the size of the ball makes a difference. I don't like over 1/2 gr. in my .36, but 2 gr. is OK in my .62.

TDM · Jan 8, 2023

david w said:
My experience tells me that the size of the ball makes a difference. I don't like over 1/2 gr. in my .36, but 2 gr. is OK in my .62.

That makes sense to me.

amcmullen · Jan 9, 2023

I was really into accuracy a few years back. I bought Dutch's system, all the tools, patches, etc.
I found that the patch thickness made the biggest difference, everything else helped to improve a bit.

I weighed balls but also measured them with a caliper. Most of the time with cast balls if they weighed different their diameter was .001 or more larger. If I remember correctly I sorted to within .5 grains
This was with cast .490 and .495 rb's

The REAL conical were all over the spectrum.

Archer 756 · Jan 9, 2023

What a waste of time, did not know that all are world class shooters, just shoot and enjoy :doh:

dave951 · Jan 9, 2023

This really isn't rocket science. The question that you must ask is "why does the weigh vary" and the answer is simple physics- more mass. With that in mind, the heaviest bullets are those closest to perfect. The lighter bullets are ones that cannot be in balance. We shoot through rifled barrels that impart spin to the bullets. What happens to an object that spins and isn't in balance?

amcmullen · Jan 9, 2023

Archer 756 said:
What a waste of time, did not know that all are world class shooters, just shoot and enjoy

...you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. I don't think it's a waste of time and I enjoy it. I enjoy it even more when I reduce as many variables that don't involve human errors.

FishDFly · Jan 9, 2023

Archer 756 said:
What a waste of time, did not know that all are world class shooters, just shoot and enjoy

There are all level of shooters here, some are just happy if it goes off.

tenngun · Jan 9, 2023

SDSmlf said:
Great thought process. Second, ask yourself do I shoot good enough to need a rifled bore? Third, do I shoot good enough to need sights on my gun? Forth, ask if I shoot good enough to even need a gun? Maybe I would do better with a pointed stick or throwing a rock?

Personally, I want a gun that shoots better than me. I want to know when I miss it is because of me and not the gun or the load. I am perfectly happy wasting my time honing my skills when I know my gun shoots better than me. But that’s just me.

Said the deer in the pot,
‘Twas not a good shoot
Twas ballistic coefficient that put me in the pot
With me said the ****
I’m a hat on his head
Cause I simply forgot about fine alloyed lead
And legions of redcoats
With their muskets and gear
All shook their heads and agreed with the deer
Twas not though skill or bad luck
We encountered deaths path
But simply because
The guy knew his math

Weighing Swaged Round Balls

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

62 Cal.

Squint

Cannon

155 mm

58 Cal.

Cannon

Cannon

62 Cal.

50 Cal.

40 Cal

40 Cal

32 Cal

54 Cal.

Cannon

40 Cal.

40 Cal.

62 Cal.

40 Cal.

69 Cal.

Cannon

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!