Why the flare on swamped barrels?

What is the original purpose of the flare in the swamped barrels? My reasoning is that it allowed to reduce the barrel's weight, while keeping the front sight quite short, but that's just an educated guess.

Wanting to build a short-barreled .62, I've been looking at suitable profiles, and found that if you take a 36"-38" swamped barrel, you have a straight section about 8" long behind the flare. This allows you to cut the barrel, and play with lengths between 24" and 32" while keeping the same muzzle diameter. Of course, you need a barrel with the hole in the middle...... Is that a workable proposition?

I don't want more weight at the muzzle (a rifle weight should be "between the hands" for what I use them for), and I don't mind a taller front sight...

The slim waist saved weight, the extra wight on the end make it ‘hang’ easier to steady when aiming.

tenngun said:

The slim waist saved weight, the extra wight on the end make it ‘hang’ easier to steady when aiming.

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Yes, the weight upfront makes it hang... Which is good if you want to steady a shot, and bad if you need to swing fast. Personally, I prefer swing fast... If I have time to steady a shot, I have time to find a tree, an anthill, or even my knees...

tenngun said:

.... the extra wight on the end make it ‘hang’ easier to steady when aiming.

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Thanks. Makes my day - even before breakfast today - to learn something new.

Swamped barrels make a distinct difference in steadiness of aim. Makes an off hand shot feel more like a rested one.

I think it was mostly style back then. They look good!

I don't think anyone can really say why they were made that way, anything without documentation is just speculation. Some possibilities have been mentioned already, or it may have been so such a high front sight wasn't necessary. Why swamped at all? might have just been easier to make a swamped barrel than a perfectly straight one in the days of handmade barrels. One other thing, the taper and flare on most original barrels was not nearly as pronounced as those made today.

Anyone who has shot swamped barrels offhand knows how great they feel and hang.

The taper is a to reduce weight, the flare is to bring the front sight in line with the rear.
The best of both worlds.

Trot said:

I don't think anyone can really say why they were made that way, anything without documentation is just speculation. Some possibilities have been mentioned already, or it may have been so such a high front sight wasn't necessary. Why swamped at all? might have just been easier to make a swamped barrel than a perfectly straight one in the days of handmade barrels. One other thing, the taper and flare on most original barrels was not nearly as pronounced as those made today.

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I agree about speculation. As to swamp of modern guns being greater than most originals, I would agree, but people aren’t generally building guns representative of “most originals”. There are some early rifles that exhibit significant taper and flare. These earlier rifles are oftentimes the focus of modern gun building. As with most things, it’s more complicated than blanket statements can cover.

I never knew about swamped barrels until I had decided to have a custom Lancaster made for me. 38" swamped barrel and no other rifle from whatever era has ever felt that good in my hands and on the shoulder. If you plan on carrying it in the field you will delight in its balance point. Oh, and BTW I never looked at the barrel as flared, I looked at it as a continuation of the breech end with a grwat waist in the middle. All in how you look at it.

morehops52 said:

I never knew about swamped barrels until I had decided to have a custom Lancaster made for me. 38" swamped barrel and no other rifle from whatever era has ever felt that good in my hands and on the shoulder. If you plan on carrying it in the field you will delight in its balance point. Oh, and BTW I never looked at the barrel as flared, I looked at it as a continuation of the breech end with a grwat waist in the middle. All in how you look at it.

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I try to stock only swamped barrels as uniform is so dead weight & ugly. I filed hours sometimes to make the swamping If you just wanted a chunk gun fine but hunting you don't need useless weight .Oddly some late makers like Armstrong seemed to go with uniformish brls ..
Rudyard's view

I alway thought it was because the early barrels were forged and and the smiths pushed the waist out to get the length, Then maybe after they held it up, they liked it and it became a thing. In other words it happened by accident. Just my take on things.
Phil

Philip A. said:

What is the original purpose of the flare in the swamped barrels? My reasoning is that it allowed to reduce the barrel's weight, while keeping the front sight quite short, but that's just an educated guess.

Wanting to build a short-barreled .62, I've been looking at suitable profiles, and found that if you take a 36"-38" swamped barrel, you have a straight section about 8" long behind the flare. This allows you to cut the barrel, and play with lengths between 24" and 32" while keeping the same muzzle diameter. Of course, you need a barrel with the hole in the middle...... Is that a workable proposition?

I don't want more weight at the muzzle (a rifle weight should be "between the hands" for what I use them for), and I don't mind a taller front sight...

Click to expand...

Your looking for a short barrel .62 caliber. I would be looking at a Jaeger barrel. That would give you a barrel already around 32".

I hunted with large caliber Jager length barrels for years trying most calibers up to .69. I had good eyes back then , and could see sights well. About 20 yrs. back , my favorite caliber for Pa. deer was .62. I quit using short barrel Jager length rifles due to eye problems , couldn't see the sights , and target well enough. I wanted a longer length barrel of 38" , to stay with a longrifle length barrel and longer sight plain. I remembered Dick Getz's recommendation , that a 1" by .62 cal. , straight octagon was doable instead of a tapered and flared barrel , Copied a 1775 era Lancaster longrifle by Valentine Fondersmith. The rifle turned out to be a dream to shoot and hunt with. The sweet spot powder charge was 90 gr FFG. I used the rifle until my old shoulder couldn't handle the recoil even though the rifle had a wide butt plate. Wished I would have built a rifle like that one earlier . It was a killer , and very accurate at a distance. These days , I've gone full circle and built the same rifle with a 38" 7/8th inch straight Oct. in .50 cal. using 80 gr. FFFG , but now the rifle has a modified Johnson tang peep sight , so I can see the sights and target. All I care about is to be able to still go to the range with an accurate rifle and practice. That I can do.

When a barrel is forged from a flat skelp of iron, the forging of the tube starts about in the middle. As the skelp is formed into a tube, metal moves from the original weld along the mandrel forming the bore from the original weld to the breeches and the muzzle. This welding process makes the barrel thicker at the breech and the muzzle. This is the process of barre making until the precision deep drilling capability became practical. After barrel were built and milled to shape barrels were tapered from breech to muzzle or straight.

Swamping of the early barrels was an unintended consequence of the barrel building process. It works.

Grenadier1758 said:

Swamping of the early barrels was an unintended consequence of the barrel building process. It works.

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That's what I always thought.

tenngun said:

The slim waist saved weight, the extra weight on the end make it ‘hang’ easier to steady when aiming.

Click to expand...

Grenadier1758 said:

Swamping of the early barrels was an unintended consequence of the barrel building process. It works.

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In modern barrels (which are machined, not hand filed) the flare also returns the point where the front sight is fixed to level with where the rear sight is fixed. Our modern barrels are more severely "swamped" than the hand filed ones that still exist on originals.

LD

Grenadier1758 said:

When a barrel is forged from a flat skelp of iron, the forging of the tube starts about in the middle. As the skelp is formed into a tube, metal moves from the original weld along the mandrel forming the bore from the original weld to the breeches and the muzzle. This welding process makes the barrel thicker at the breech and the muzzle. This is the process of barre making until the precision deep drilling capability became practical. After barrel were built and milled to shape barrels were tapered from breech to muzzle or straight.

Swamping of the early barrels was an unintended consequence of the barrel building process. It works.

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I strongly disagree. If you have enough skill to forge a barrel, you can certainly control the final shape. Look at Jaeger barrels with their HEAVY swamp. No way this was unintended. Nope.

Watch “The Colonial Gunsmith at Williamsburg” film he clearly explains how he starts with the intent to forge a swamped barrel.