Ruger Old Army Upgrade

Smokerr said:

This is my go to on ROA

http://www.rugeroldarmy.com/

Yea my 94 is not marked up but the Centennial did have marks on the Aluminum grip.

At a guess the Stainless is probably stainless grip but I don't know that for sure.

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It is. All stainless guns have a steel grip frame.

Just to clarity. Is that a Stainless Steel Grip frame or is it a steel grip frame?

Smokerr said:

This is my go to on ROA

http://www.rugeroldarmy.com/

Yea my 94 is not marked up but the Centennial did have marks on the Aluminum grip.

At a guess the Stainless is probably stainless grip but I don't know that for sure.

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Wow, down at the end it states by using 3F Triple 7 and an unknown projectile (I used a ballistics calc to determine that it’s most likely the Lee 220 grn RN bullet as it showed 704 ft/lbs @ 1200 fps and this was common) it can achieve 1200 fps and get 700 ft/lbs, to me the beginnings of a magnum.

I’ve never seen posted data that shows this, but I’ve had a couple of people state it’s achievable, especially in the ClassicBallistix or Clements with his deepened chamber service.

Mike Beliveau made a 6 part video comparing a 5.5” to a 7.5”, using 3F Goex vs reduced 3F Triple 7, and a ball vs a Lee RN vs Kaido’s modified Lee Colt bullet. He erroneously both reduced the powder charge 15% thinking it for safety, which it isn’t, as well as using very light compression, which is only for metallic cartridge loading. So the Triple 7 loads aren’t max charges. He’s achieving just shy of 500 ft/lbs with these. I have a hard time believing another 5 grns or so would push it an extra 150 fps (Lee RN). Maybe he’s more deficient than just 5 grns. And Triple 7 can be compressed a little more than black powder. Maybe it’s a bit of both? Makes sense to me.

I’ve really poured over ballistics for these guns, and felt that my Remington NMA with a 235 grn bullet should be in the .45 ACP realm of power, ~400 ft/lbs. I’ve seen a lot of data that supports this. However I’ve had a couple of people tell me that I should expect more along the lines of +P performance as I’m using a weighed 33 grns of Olde Eynsford. Seeing Mike’s reduced charge loads seems to backup what they’re saying. Interesting.

Part 1

Smokerr said:

Just to clarity. Is that a Stainless Steel Grip frame or is it a steel grip frame?

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Stainless steel.

Got it, thank you. Makes sense but when I found the Aluminum Grip on the Centennial it was, what the hey?

I would have thought it had gone the other way.

Were the SA also Aluminum Frame Grip? I had a 73 or so SA 44 mag with the transfer bar (hated the T Bar) but don't remember any more than that about it.

Funny one from that time was my brother had a 357 Ruger and he was using Lee Hand Loader, got some lead bullets, was annoyed about the grease on them.

I told him I did not understand it but they would not put it on unless they had a reason.

So of course he does not listen to me, full 357 loads, leaded the barrel up to a smooth bore.

We had a lot of fun scraping the lead out of the groves.

Smokerr said:

Got it, thank you. Makes sense but when I found the Aluminum Grip on the Centennial it was, what the hey?

I would have thought it had gone the other way.

Were the SA also Aluminum Frame Grip? I had a 73 or so SA 44 mag with the transfer bar (hated the T Bar) but don't remember any more than that about it.

Funny one from that time was my brother had a 357 Ruger and he was using Lee Hand Loader, got some lead bullets, was annoyed about the grease on them.

I told him I did not understand it but they would not put it on unless they had a reason.

So of course he does not listen to me, full 357 loads, leaded the barrel up to a smooth bore.

We had a lot of fun scraping the lead out of the groves.

Click to expand...

The hardest lessons are the ones that stick with us… at least it’s been my experience.

I’m not completely up on the dates yet but ruger began SA and the Old Army production with aluminum grip frames. Some people really like the balance others prefer the steel. I like the steel frame personally. Best weight and balance for me.

I have 3 ROAs. The short one in my avatar and one stainless I bought in 1996 and one I bought on here about a year ago. I have two 45 colt conversion cylinders and one Classic-Ballistix. They all shoot very well and I don't shoot them enough due to shooting my Goonerized Colts more. If I was able to hunt again it would be a Kaido 240 over Swiss 3F.

I have a 45 Colt unmentionable for the 47 Walker. Caps are hard to come by and I wanted an option to be able to shoot it. They have their place and hard to argue if you just want to shoot its vastly faster.

I got the Mag Spark for the ROA to allow shooting as well sans caps. That is a mixed bag item, but it sure is consistent on ignition. The primers were bulging into the frame on the Centennial ROA, have swapped and see how the 94 ROA does with them.

If that does not work then an unemotional 45 Colt would suffice there as well. I got with the 45 Colt as its longer and the closer to the forcing cone the better I believe.

What is funny, no longer BP but I have to remove the cylinder on a cease fire as it looks like a BP.

I have not asked how they deal with the regular SA though you don't see much of those.

Smokerr said:

Got it, thank you. Makes sense but when I found the Aluminum Grip on the Centennial it was, what the hey?

I would have thought it had gone the other way.

Were the SA also Aluminum Frame Grip? I had a 73 or so SA 44 mag with the transfer bar (hated the T Bar) but don't remember any more than that about it.

Funny one from that time was my brother had a 357 Ruger and he was using Lee Hand Loader, got some lead bullets, was annoyed about the grease on them.

I told him I did not understand it but they would not put it on unless they had a reason.

So of course he does not listen to me, full 357 loads, leaded the barrel up to a smooth bore.

We had a lot of fun scraping the lead out of the groves.

Click to expand...

I have no issues with the standard Black Hawk aluminum alloy frame which is on the majority of all Ruger single action guns and ROA's. I have seen a few with the square back brass trigger guard that always appealed to me.

Bad Karma said:

The hardest lessons are the ones that stick with us… at least it’s been my experience.

I’m not completely up on the dates yet but ruger began SA and the Old Army production with aluminum grip frames. Some people really like the balance others prefer the steel. I like the steel frame personally. Best weight and balance for me.

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I can’t imagine holding mine and it being barrel heavy (7.5”). Don’t think I’d love mine so much if it balanced like a Walker for its size

dickydalton said:

I have 3 ROAs. The short one in my avatar and one stainless I bought in 1996 and one I bought on here about a year ago. I have two 45 colt conversion cylinders and one Classic-Ballistix. They all shoot very well and I don't shoot them enough due to shooting my Goonerized Colts more. If I was able to hunt again it would be a Kaido 240 over Swiss 3F.

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Wow! Ok, I have a few questions if you don’t mind.

What Colts do you have that you prefer and what makes them more likable to shoot over your Rugers?

Were you to hunt again with this Kaido bullet what gun and load are you talking about?

You stated you’d use that bullet over 3F Swiss. Have you tried Olde Eynsford by Goex? I’m not sure if it’s back into production but it was made to compete with Swiss and give very similar velocities but is cheaper being a US product. It seems, from what I’ve read mostly here, it isn’t as good in rifles but is right on par in handguns. Might want to give it a try if you can.

First: Here's some:

rodwha said:

Wow! Ok, I have a few questions if you don’t mind.

What Colts do you have that you prefer and what makes them more likable to shoot over your Rugers?

Were you to hunt again with this Kaido bullet what gun and load are you talking about?

You stated you’d use that bullet over 3F Swiss. Have you tried Olde Eynsford by Goex? I’m not sure if it’s back into production but it was made to compete with Swiss and give very similar velocities but is cheaper being a US product. It seems, from what I’ve read mostly here, it isn’t as good in rifles but is right on par in handguns. Might want to give it a try if you can.

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2nd, I've shot a lot of Olde Eynsford and still have some I am using right now. I like it and it's way better than Goex but the Swiss 3F is my favorite. In the standard ROA cylinder 30 grains fits good. When I tried 35 it was just too much. I never tried it in the Classic Ballistix cylinder. Olde Eynsford will compress a bit more than Swiss I've noticed.

dickydalton said:

2nd, I've shot a lot of Olde Eynsford and still have some I am using right now. I like it and it's way better than Goex but the Swiss 3F is my favorite. In the standard ROA cylinder 30 grains fits good. When I tried 35 it was just too much. I never tried it in the Classic Ballistix cylinder. Olde Eynsford will compress a bit more than Swiss I've noticed.

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I can shoot 40+ with round ball and this weekend I shot the jd conical in my roa and it will wold way more than 30 with real black. This weekend I was using grafs 3f but I also use swiss....noticed no difference in compressibility.

@dickydalton keeping them loaded, I like it.

Blackpowderart said:

I can shoot 40+ with round ball and this weekend I shot the jd conical in my roa and it will wold way more than 30 with real black. This weekend I was using grafs 3f but I also use swiss....noticed no difference in compressibility.

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I wish powder measures were more uniform, it makes it hard to really compare what each of us are loading. My 30 grn measure won’t be what yours or his is. I like my new rifle measure as it throws what it weighs in 3F Olde Eynsford.

dickydalton said:

2nd, I've shot a lot of Olde Eynsford and still have some I am using right now. I like it and it's way better than Goex but the Swiss 3F is my favorite. In the standard ROA cylinder 30 grains fits good. When I tried 35 it was just too much. I never tried it in the Classic Ballistix cylinder. Olde Eynsford will compress a bit more than Swiss I've noticed.

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And why do you prefer these over your Rugers? Just more accurate? All of them? That’s quite the collection.

That 240 grn Kaido is no joke! I like mine designed a bit differently as I don’t need all of that lube grooving they give and I like my meplat really wide. Mine are 0.375”, though I’ve contemplated reducing it a tad. It’s looking like I’ll have a 235-240 grn bullet when I’m done that’s shorter, and that accommodates my more accurate charge of 33 grns of 3F. That should put my NMA squarely in 45 ACP +P territory I believe. Plenty stout!

rodwha said:

And why do you prefer these over your Rugers? Just more accurate? All of them? That’s quite the collection.

That 240 grn Kaido is no joke! I like mine designed a bit differently as I don’t need all of that lube grooving they give and I like my meplat really wide. Mine are 0.375”, though I’ve contemplated reducing it a tad. It’s looking like I’ll have a 235-240 grn bullet when I’m done that’s shorter, and that accommodates my more accurate charge of 33 grns of 3F. That should put my NMA squarely in 45 ACP +P territory I believe. Plenty stout!

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I have close to 40 more and can't shootem all!
On powder measures, I got in a big fight years ago on Gunslingers Gulch when I proved that one type measure was way off to one guy that insisted he was loading 50 grains in an 1858. My pictures showed the truth.