Stock dyeing and finishing questions

AWSpinks · Jul 20, 2024

I recently acquired a double shotgun kit on this forum and now my youngest son and I have started the process of putting it together. He's having a ball even through the monotonous task of sanding to remove the tool marks! I have finished and refinished numerous stocks for modern rifles but all were walnut and did not require stain. I believe this one is made of Birch.

Question 1:
After a few hours yesterday searching old posts here I saw that several people are using Fiebings leather dye to stain these. I'm familiar with this dye as I have done a fair bit of leather work in the past. My question is are you using the "Pro" dye which is alcohol based or the "institutional" dye which is water based? From the pictures I saw that I liked the color and look of said they used a blend of medium brown and russet. I could only find those colors in the water based variety.

Question 2:
After spending time teaching my young man how to keep the edges of the but "sharp" by using a block to sand with, I realized this kit doesn't have a butt plate included and is intended not to have one. So what should the corners on the butt look like? From what pictures I saw it looks like they should be rounded off. Picture included to try to further explain what I'm talking about.

Phil Coffins · Jul 20, 2024

You should get a butt plate, steel is most commonly used. The butt will be in contact with the ground and floor often and needs protection.

Phil Coffins · Jul 20, 2024

A nice one here but most are simply stamped sheet metal.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/671/1/bp-shot-c-2-i

AWSpinks · Jul 20, 2024

Phil Coffins said:
A nice one here but most are simply stamped sheet metal.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/671/1/bp-shot-c-2-i

I don't think it is intended to have one. the stock is not drilled for one. I've seen pictures of them without one.

AWSpinks · Jul 20, 2024

Phil Coffins said:
A nice one here but most are simply stamped sheet metal.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/671/1/bp-shot-c-2-i

I think it's supposed to be done like this.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/my-new-barn-gun.147052/

bpd303 · Jul 20, 2024

Or like this with only a heel & toe cap, which helps to protect them from chipping. The edges should definitely be rounded some.

Phil Coffins · Jul 20, 2024

All original double shotguns and replicas I’ve handled looked very much like this. But suit yourself.

IMG_0617 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

reddogge · Jul 20, 2024

Put a buttplate on it. Why go against the prevailing trend?

wiscoaster · Jul 20, 2024

reddogge said:
Put a buttplate on it. Why go against the prevailing trend?

You don't need to do it just because of the prevailing opinion trend on this forum; you need to do it because it has been historically and practically found to be necessary, and so is always done.

CuNosecap · Jul 20, 2024

Sounds like this is a project for you and your son. Your son will likely still have the gun many years from now. You don’t want the butt to be splintered and frayed as will almost certainly happen without a proper butt plate.
I suspect it was way harder to find pictures of guns without a butt plate than with. BTW, most kits, not all but most, are not predrilled for the butt plate.

AWSpinks · Jul 20, 2024

Well now that we have a consensus on the butt plate, what's the prevailing trend on the dye?

2 shots · Jul 20, 2024

never saw a double gun or kit double without a butt plate . what brand kit is it?? in a kit you would have to drill the mounting holes after you fit it. i would do it. the one phil linked is a SHARP idea

Phil Coffins · Jul 20, 2024

I have never used leather dye on wood so I won’t have any useful information for you. I’ve read about it but someone that has actually used it would be a better source.

AWSpinks · Jul 20, 2024

2 shots said:
never saw a double gun or kit double without a butt plate . what brand kit is it?? in a kit you would have to drill the mounting holes after you fit it. i would do it. the one phil linked is a SHARP idea

I'm not arguing with you but this one doesn't. It's hard to see but it doesn't seem to be one on the one in the picture.

Phil Coffins · Jul 20, 2024

I agree that CVA didn’t supply one on this one but you may want to up grade at this early stage.

reddogge · Jul 21, 2024

wiscoaster said:
You don't need to do it just because of the prevailing opinion trend on this forum; you need to do it because it has been historically and practically found to be necessary, and so is always done.

I was referring to the prevailing trend of history, not this forum.

twines · Jul 21, 2024

Ive used both leather and alcohol. Prefer alcohol
Seems to blend better when you mix color to match existing wood or create the color you want. Both work it's just personal preference

Rawhide67 · Jul 21, 2024

I've only experimented once with leather dye on wood. It bleeds quickly and kind of fans out, on cva or traditions wood. European birch or beech or whatever it is. If you stain it first, it doesn't bleed.

Might want to practice on something first just to get an idea of how the dye is going to perform.

longcruise · Jul 21, 2024

Phil Coffins said:
I have never used leather dye on wood so I won’t have any useful information for you. I’ve read about it but someone that has actually used it would be a better source.

I used leather dye on some bows and found that it faded badly. One bow riser faded badly over ten years even though it was in a room with very little light. There might be some UV resistant over coats that would help.

This is a CVA stock with Watco Danish Oil. It's Beech wood which is most likely what your wood is.

ZUG · Jul 21, 2024

I assembled one of those CVA SXS kits for my brother back in 2002 that his wife bought him in 1985. I put a steel butt plate on it to protect the wood. I used a dedicated gunstock stain from Homer Dangler now sold by Log Cabin Shop <https://logcabinshop.com/catalog.php?path=185_179_55&product_id=25922>

Here's a post from a while back :

Staining Beech Gunstocks | The Muzzleloading Forum
The following reply is from Zonie
When I rebuilt a CVA double barrel shotgun kit I used alcohol based stains on the beechwood stock.
It took several coatings of stain but it turned out very well.
Birchwood Casey Walnut stain would work just as well (and cost less).

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