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Kibler Fowler vs Trade Gun

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Frontstuffer070

Frontstuffer070

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Hello All,
Well my next adventure is going to be a smooth bore. I'm having a hard time choosing between a Kibler Fowler (20 ga) and a Trade gun kit from Clay Smith. I know the Kibler is gonna edge out a trade gun in cosmetics. But I'm after a do it all gun, ball, buck and ball, and shot. The fowlers are made to be just that and I can respect that. I know Jim said the 20 ga can fire a round ball. Are the trade guns better equipped to be the blunder buss of long guns? And I'm a hunter so that big ole trigger guard has its advantages too. If you had to choose between the two, what would be your choice and why?
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
 
A trade gun is going to be a better round ball gun that a fowler.

Those guns were mainly used for, no surprise, hunting waterfowl. They are not generally used or meant for firing round ball. In Jim Kibler’s videos on his fowler he mentions that they are not really meant to shoot ball. That’s fowlers in general, not just his.

A proper trade gun or fusil de chasse would have actually probably more often than not used with ball over shot. Unlike fowling pieces, they would have been used for large game hunting and self defense using ball, though shot was certainly used with them.

It sounds like the Clay Smith gun would be right up your alley. I’ve got one of his painted trade guns that I plan on moving soon.
 
In modern terms I compare a dirt cheap bottom of the barrel single shot break action shotgun to say a Remington 870. Neither are high end guns but both will shoot shot or a slug and in my day they were both readily available. The 870 is more refined than the topper in looks and use as is the Kibler is certainly a refined piece for what it represents historically.
Trade guns historically were cheaply made and had probably the thinnest breeches of all the shotguns.
 
Frontstuffer070 said:
Hello All,
Well my next adventure is going to be a smooth bore. I'm having a hard time choosing between a Kibler Fowler (20 ga) and a Trade gun kit from Clay Smith. I know the Kibler is gonna edge out a trade gun in cosmetics. But I'm after a do it all gun, ball, buck and ball, and shot. The fowlers are made to be just that and I can respect that. I know Jim said the 20 ga can fire a round ball. Are the trade guns better equipped to be the blunder buss of long guns? And I'm a hunter so that big ole trigger guard has its advantages too. If you had to choose between the two, what would be your choice and why?
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
Click to expand...
Seems like you are thinking of a Northwest Trade Gun style with the large guard comment. Your choice should depends on preference and how confident you are to do the inletting on a kit that requires those skills, versus assembly and finishing of a Kibler kit.
 
Smokey Plainsman said:
Kibler specifically says to not shoot round ball in the 16 gauge fowler as well. These guns are meant for hunting and use with loose shot.
Click to expand...
Its a CYA.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot ball out of his.16 ga guns.
The difference is I don't pretend they are a rifle and load it with a tight patch and ball. Historically the patched ball was to impart spin on a rifled bore.
 
Frontstuffer070 said:
After seeing the pics of the barrels side by side, you can see what he means. His 20 gauge has a nice thicker barrel on it though.
Click to expand...

Yep, it’s a very thin walled barrel for a 16. This will make an excellent pointing birding piece but lots of barrel whip if used with ball.
 
Last edited:
Smokey Plainsman said:
Kibler specifically says to not shoot round ball in the 16 gauge fowler as well. These guns are meant for hunting and use with loose shot.
Click to expand...
I don't recall Kibler saying that at all. He mentions the additional recoil of a 16 loaded with ball. If he has stated specifically that it would be unsafe, I've missed seeing it.

My thoughts are that they are both capable of shot and ball so choose based on which one actually fits you physically and in terms of usage.
 
longcruise said:
I don't recall Kibler saying that at all. He mentions the additional recoil of a 16 loaded with ball. If he has stated specifically that it would be unsafe, I've missed seeing it.

My thoughts are that they are both capable of shot and ball so choose based on which one actually fits you physically and in terms of usage.
Click to expand...
I believe that first Jim would not offer an unsafe gun with barrel whip problems and safety issues. If I recall he said the 16 gauge would probably not be as accurate as the 20-gauge with a roundball so if you want a round ball shooter probably the 20 gauge would be a better choice. I would not hesitate to use the 16 gauge with roundball. Not sure where the unsafe BS came from.
 
Regarding barrel whip: it’s real and one main reason why bench shooters using rifles choose heavy barrels. It isn’t a safety issue. But since we are talking about knuckle-balling round balls down range in a smoothbore, I don’t think barrel stiffness is the main variable impacting accuracy. Your experience may vary.
 
Yes, you could shoot a ball out of our fowler, I'd just suggest a 20 gauge would be a better choice. As to comparison with other offerings, all I can say is there really isn't any. Just being honest. Not just cosmetics... Better architecture (thinner web and appropriate forestock), better lock, overall better historical correctness, fit, finish, completeness etc.
 
Smokey Plainsman said:
A trade gun is going to be a better round ball gun that a fowler.

Those guns were mainly used for, no surprise, hunting waterfowl. They are not generally used or meant for firing round ball. In Jim Kibler’s videos on his fowler he mentions that they are not really meant to shoot ball. That’s fowlers in general, not just his.

A proper trade gun or fusil de chasse would have actually probably more often than not used with ball over shot. Unlike fowling pieces, they would have been used for large game hunting and self defense using ball, though shot was certainly used with them.

It sounds like the Clay Smith gun would be right up your alley. I’ve got one of his painted trade guns that I plan on moving soon.
Click to expand...
Actually in Jim Kibler 's video he said that of the two gauges he sells the 20 gauge is better suited for firing round ball because of the wall thickness.
In fact he noted that fowlers could and had been loaded with all sorts of objects (stones, smashed lead balls, etc.) depending upon how desperate the shooter was.
 

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